Did Sutter change the system?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

On the personnel front:

Kylington to Weegar should be a huge upgrade. In general, I would say it is, as Weegar has been solid. But IMO this team lacks players who can effectively carry the puck and I thought he would do more of that.

Gudbranson to Stone is a downgrade.

But on the whole, did the personnel on the back end really get worse?

I'd say we are seeing a lack of organizational depth on the back end with the inability to play an effective 6th D-man. With the success the farm team is having, this is kind of hard to explain.

I don’t think the back end got worse. With Anderson and Big Z both taking steps I think with the Addition of Weegar it’s actually better. It would be nice if one of the youngsters would take a step.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Sutter has Jonathan Quick to thank for his cups and Kipper to thank for "the run"...period.

BREAKING: Coach has top players to thank for Stanley Cups, more at 6.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Torture

BREAKING: Coach has top players to thank for Stanley Cups, more at 6.

If you look at Quick and Kiprusoff you get an understanding of why Sutter rides his goalies till they drop to win. Old habits die hard...then the old habits get shown the door. I don't think I have ever heard of a team locking the Head Coach out of the dressing room...anyone else?

[Igottago]

Huge Sutter supporter but my feeling is he's managed Huberdeau poorly this season. From the weird comments in the media, to line combinations, to probably the instruction given on the ice. The organization just invested in this guy as the new franchise player long term, he's probably feeling a lot of pressure to live up to that standard. And it appears to me from the outside that for some reason, rather than make it a comfortable transition and build up his confidence, he's been leaned on pretty heavily that his overall game isn't good enough and reminded that he's nothing special at every turn. I think there's a time and place for that, but I do think Sutter's mandate should be to help this guy to become what he was advertised as. I don't see any way this team sees success with their now franchise player being neutered into a 50-60 pt player, even if his defensive game improves. If the Huberdeau signing is an advantage to this team, surely, it's on the offensive side of the puck. Maybe I'm wrong but it just hasn't seemed like a productive way to integrate the guy.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Yikes

It would be nice to get a good look at a few of the Wranglers in the show on and off...only one way to get a look into the future assets but grumpy needs to be gone for that to happen me thinks.

Agreed. They have a slot open without a trade with Lucic on the Huberdeau line. Sutter refuses to look at anything other than the current game.

Pelletier is up watching. Put him with Huberdeau and Kadri at least for 5 games while Ritchie is out.

I thought Deuhr was good last night too. I hope he gets a spot move forward

[Lanny_McDonald]

For the Sutter defenders, there has been many opportunities recently to inject a kid from the AHL and get his feet wet. You play kids when you're up against weak opponents or teams ravaged by injuries. Sound like a couple of teams we just faced? The way Sutter has handled the callups from the AHL should be his undoing. This team is not winning as it is, so see if the kids have something to inject some energy in a team sorely lacking any.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

For the Sutter defenders, there has been many opportunities recently to inject a kid from the AHL and get his feet wet. You play kids when you're up against weak opponents or teams ravaged by injuries. Sound like a couple of teams we just faced? The way Sutter has handled the callups from the AHL should be his undoing. This team is not winning as it is, so see if the kids have something to inject some energy in a team sorely lacking any.

I don't know if the kids can succeed under him knowing if they make a mistake they will be out of the lineup. Tons of pressure for 10 min ice time and 1 mistake gets you a healthy scratch/demotion

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

For the Sutter defenders, there has been many opportunities recently to inject a kid from the AHL and get his feet wet. You play kids when you're up against weak opponents or teams ravaged by injuries. Sound like a couple of teams we just faced? The way Sutter has handled the callups from the AHL should be his undoing. This team is not winning as it is, so see if the kids have something to inject some energy in a team sorely lacking any.

The way you match up with teams weakened by injury that need to put their young AHL players in the lineup is to put your young AHL players in not due to being weakened by injury? Odd statement.

You talked about for 30 games how Sutter was a terrible dinosaur coach then not a peep for a calendar year and you just picked back up like someone unpaused you or something.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I don't know if the kids can succeed under him knowing if they make a mistake they will be out of the lineup. Tons of pressure for 10 min ice time and 1 mistake gets you a healthy scratch/demotion

Plus the ######er calls them out in the press.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I can't figure out what swear that is.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Major Major

You talked about for 30 games how Sutter was a terrible dinosaur coach then not a peep for a calendar year and you just picked back up like someone unpaused you or something.

It's always good to be way ahead of the curve.

[Classic_Sniper]

I think the question can be answered by asking yourself why Darryl would change anything after winning 50 games last season? It makes no sense for him to change anything when the Flames were one of the best teams in the league last season and bringing back the majority of the same group.

The problem is more so the about the execution of Darryl's system than anything. The individual skaters on this team just aren't checking and defending the same way they did last season. Team isn't winning the same number of puck battles and 50/50's especially in the offensive zone and it's leading to more counter attacks against.

The biggest difference without a doubt has to be the loss of Tkachuk and Gaudreau. The top line last season played Darryl Sutter's system to perfection and didn't just drive play for themselves, they drove the bus for the entire team. They checked like I've never seen a line check before in the game of hockey. They spent the entire game in the offensive zone, tired out the opposition defense, swung momentum forward and set up the next line up for success.

The current line up can't mimic that top line's dominance. The current group works hard, but they don't score easy goals. They almost have to score through attrition, chipping away slowly at the opposition. So you're ultimately left with a team that can't get that extra goal to make it 3-1 or 4-1 to salt away the game, so they're perpetually stuck up one or down one. It's the same story every game with any opponent, rinse and repeat.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Keep in mind as well Sutter was brought in specifically for the previous core not this massive change in core. 4 of those guys are gone.

Treliving said that the team at the time needed Darryl those specific players.

He just may not be a fit for this particular group he has right now.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I can't figure out what swear that is.

eff you see kay eee rrrr

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think the question can be answered by asking yourself why Darryl would change anything after winning 50 games last season? It makes no sense for him to change anything when the Flames were one of the best teams in the league last season and bringing back the majority of the same group.

The problem is more so the about the execution of Darryl's system than anything. The individual skaters on this team just aren't checking and defending the same way they did last season. Team isn't winning the same number of puck battles and 50/50's especially in the offensive zone and it's leading to more counter attacks against.

The biggest difference without a doubt has to be the loss of Tkachuk and Gaudreau. The top line last season played Darryl Sutter's system to perfection and didn't just drive play for themselves, they drove the bus for the entire team. They checked like I've never seen a line check before in the game of hockey. They spent the entire game in the offensive zone, tired out the opposition defense, swung momentum forward and set up the next line up for success.

The current line up can't mimic that top line's dominance. The current group works hard, but they don't score easy goals. They almost have to score through attrition, chipping away slowly at the opposition. So you're ultimately left with a team that can't get that extra goal to make it 3-1 or 4-1 to salt away the game, so they're perpetually stuck up one or down one. It's the same story every game with any opponent, rinse and repeat.

Lmao lets relax a bit.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

$$$$$.

Ownership wants $$$$. You make less $$$$$ in rebuild, but if fans want true change, they need to reward rebuilds. That means stop paying the Flames until they commit to rebuild.

Dumping $20 mil in salary and adding $10 mil...or earning $10 mil more...is the same number.

What changes is what those actions (could) represent.

The second represents the intended status quo for next year, no big callups, no big trades, just forge ahead as is and damn the consequences hoping that a big turnaround occurs.

The first is the dump 'em and trade 'em and burn it down route.

I'm not against the latter, and if the Flames are sellers at the TDL, might very well be supportive of it, even with the need to retain salaries and get back less than they might have.

But we're not there yet and there's quite a bit of hockey before then.

[CGY12]

Just as the players are struggling, Sutter is struggling as much and maybe more. I'm not sure if he's ever experienced this type of face lift on a core he's coached from one year to the next, but IMO he's handled it extremely poorly. From line combos, to ice time deployment, to weird comments in the media, to goalie usage, to not giving young players who are preforming in the AHL a legit look, it just all seems like a gigantic mess. We all knew he was a pretty stubborn coach, but his ability to adapt seems to be lacking mightily. Maybe over the long term this is the correct course of action but in the short term he looks lost.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Yikes

eff you see kay eee rrrr

But there's two more letters than that.
Unless you typed eff you see kay eer rrr eee rr
####erer

No that's not it.

[Mr.Coffee]

At the end of the day there just is no good reason some of our good players on the farm aren’t getting a legitimate shot. None. They need real ice time in positions designed for their success. The existing guys 40 games in ain’t getting it done to the required level so times up.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But there's two more letters than that.
Unless you typed eff you see kay eer rrr eee rr
####erer

No that's not it.

I typed eff ** kay eee rrr and that's what the system generated...