[PGT] Flames lose to Blues 4-3 OTL

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by sonq

Yeah, Huby blew it with Kadri in OT, but I still wouldn't say he is playing #### atm. Were you pissed at his play on the Flames 1st goal too?

He blew it on every OT that I can remember. It’s not the first time.
He has played better but if you look at the whole season and the standings, it’s not unfair to say he has played like #### compared to the expectation of a 10M guy.

A 10M player is supposed to be able to carry the puck and generate a big chunk of the team’s offense. A star player.

[FanIn80]

All I know is that Gaudreau and Tkachuk seem infinitely more coachable than Huberdeau.

I mean how hard is it to just not give the puck away in 3v3? You could put me out there with two opposing NHL forwards coming towards me, and I could still put the puck somewhere that's easier for my guys to get it than theirs.

Say what you want about Chucky, but even though he clearly did not like Sutter's system/coaching/personality, he kept his mouth and did everything that he was asked to do.

The flipside I sometimes land on too is that we've traded for Doug Flutie when we have a coach who thinks QBs should never leave the pocket, and the only way to win is by running it straight up the gut for 3-4 yards a play.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

All I know is that Gaudreau and Tkachuk seem infinitely more coachable than Huberdeau.

I mean how hard is it to just not give the puck away in 3v3? You could put me out there with two opposing NHL forwards coming towards me, and I could still put the puck somewhere that's easier for my guys to get it than theirs.

Say what you want about Chucky, but even though he clearly did not like Sutter's system/coaching/personality, he kept his mouth and did everything that he was asked to do.

The flipside I sometimes land on too is that we've traded for Doug Flutie when we have a coach who thinks QBs should never leave the pocket, and the only way to win is by running it straight up the gut for 3-4 yards a play.

Lmao I think his stats prove just how coachable he is.

Absurd take.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Lmao I think his stats prove just how coachable he is.

Absurd take.

Which stats prove how coachable who is, and how do those stats relate to everything else I said? Which coach is/was coaching whomever you're speaking about when whichever stats you've referenced were recorded? Was this coach a details-oriented, possession-focused, "offence from defence" coach, or a run-and-gun, "let talent figure it out" coach?

Absurd response.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Which stats prove how coachable who is, and how do those stats relate to everything else I said? Which coach is/was coaching whomever you're speaking about when whichever stats you've referenced were recorded? Was this coach a details-oriented, possession-focused, "offence from defence" coach, or a run-and-gun, "let talent figure it out" coach?

Absurd response.

Why is it always solely the player's responsibility to translate his game to the coaches wishes and not the other way around? Shouldn't he be given the freedom to play to his strengths? You know the strengths that allowed him to score 115 points last year and earn an 80M dollar contract? At the very least there should be some give and take here, and I don't see that. There is no denying that Huberdeau's skillset is being heavily undervalued by the coaching staff. Hell - he's not even getting first line minutes.

Now, do I think Huberdeau is playing his best hockey? Obviously not, but I see a player who seriously lacks that "swagger" and confidence needed to be an elite point producer and I think a ton of that has to do with what's being asked of him, and the diminished role he is getting.

Do you think Jon Cooper put restrictions on Kucherov? I don't. I still see a player that cheats heavily to create offense, and that didn't stop them from winning back to back cups.

Darryl is too stubborn and stuck in his ways to allow this to happen.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Naitix

Yes I think Sutter most definitely dummied down the powerplay, the only thing we do are point shots, there seems to be absolutely no set plays. I think we have enough talent to make the pp work.

The only thing that I think is much worse are zone entries, but once we are set up there is no reason for it to be that bad. No wonder the pp is so bad, when there are no set plays you have no way to recreate the way you score goals consistently. You rely on bodies screening the goalie and rebounds, that is more randomness.

Remember how Lindholm has that insanely fast release on the RW, why are we not using that? Are you telling me there is nobody on the team that can make that pass to him now that Johnny is gone. I saw them make that pass to Lindholm once on the pp in the last ~10 games and it was a good chance. If you take a look at last nights pp, there was a chance where Andersson had space and had Tofolli to his left for a one timer and he just shot it into the goalie for a rebound (6:25 left in the second period). They are not even looking for these opportunities, powerplay is all about moving the puck quickly and utilizing the fact that the other team is missing a player to get high danger chances, point shots are not high danger chances.

They either have no confidence to make passes or Sutter is telling them to just shoot the puck. I think it is a combination of both.

Why would he do that?

They still have the same shooter and point man QB, and they've swapped out elite passers.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

I think it's more likely they're not seeing each other.

Lindholm, Toffoli, and Andersson the same.

Huberdeau = Gaudreau.

So he's looking at the group and has decided that Kadri is too crappy to play a skill game compared to Tkachuk ... so scrap it and go full meat head?

[Flame On]

Yeah the conclusions that this is on the coach are quite bizarre. For years we clamored for a top tier, not budget bin coach, and then they did that and it paid immediate results.
This is the result of a keeper that has lost his touch and losing dynamic forwards to free agency.
Its more on Tre than Sutter.

[Naitix]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why would he do that?

They still have the same shooter and point man QB, and they've swapped out elite passers.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

I think it's more likely they're not seeing each other.

Lindholm, Toffoli, and Andersson the same.

Huberdeau = Gaudreau.

So he's looking at the group and has decided that Kadri is too crappy to play a skill game compared to Tkachuk ... so scrap it and go full meat head?

If they are not seeing each other then they should practice more until they do. It has been the same pp unit for 40 games, they had almost 4 months to practice it, they should be seeing each other. The only thing they do on the pp are perimeter and point shots, there is no way they practice actual set plays and never do them in a game. I think the coaching staff just wants them to get shots on net and nothing else

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Flame On

losing dynamic forwards to free agency.
Its more on Tre than Sutter.

Johnny made it very clear that he had to move to the eastern US for family reasons. It wouldn't have mattered who the GM was here.

Chucky basically wanted to be in Florida asap from the moment he was drafted. Again it wouldn't have mattered who the GM was here.

Tre made the very best of a very difficult situation and kept the team competitive.

[FlamesAddiction]

Edit: Wrong thread.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Johnny made it very clear that he had to move to the eastern US for family reasons. It wouldn't have mattered who the GM was here.

Chucky basically wanted to be in Florida asap from the moment he was drafted. Again it wouldn't have mattered who the GM was here.

Tre made the very best of a very difficult situation and kept the team competitive.

Agree with this assessment of Treliving’s work up to the point of signing the new players to long term contracts.

I think the experience with Gaudreau and Tkachuk made Treliving too willing to open the purse strings. He was working in fear of a similar problem with Weegar and Huberdeau when their current contracts expire, and over paid them. Huberdeau is playing at a level that deserves his current contract or less, and the near doubling of that contract next year will put the team in cap Hell for a long time.

[keeper34]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

It’s just one game guys.

(Copy/pasted)

It's just one goal guys.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Lmao I think his stats prove just how coachable he is.

Absurd take.

His defensive metrics along with his offensive stats tell me he is a guy who is buying into what the coach is preaching.

I don't see a guy cheating for offence.

[activeStick]

I predict for Thursday, Pelletier gets in somewhere in the top 6 and Markstrom starts. GDT implodes!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Which stats prove how coachable who is, and how do those stats relate to everything else I said? Which coach is/was coaching whomever you're speaking about when whichever stats you've referenced were recorded? Was this coach a details-oriented, possession-focused, "offence from defence" coach, or a run-and-gun, "let talent figure it out" coach?

Absurd response.

Huberdeau has had a LOT of different coaches, most of them bad, and he excelled anyway.

It certainly isn't an issue of being coachable, but it is very likely a style of play issue.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why would he do that?

They still have the same shooter and point man QB, and they've swapped out elite passers.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

I think it's more likely they're not seeing each other.

Lindholm, Toffoli, and Andersson the same.

Huberdeau = Gaudreau.

So he's looking at the group and has decided that Kadri is too crappy to play a skill game compared to Tkachuk ... so scrap it and go full meat head?

If you listen to Sutter pressers he constantly talks about this team as not having enough skill to play that kind of game and so they have to play "the right way" which is his way. Mentions shot volume a lot instead of making skillful plays. He also refers to them as a low-scoring team...but that again is due to style of play.

This honestly seems like a mind game to me. Constantly tell players they're not talented so they play to his system. It doesn't shock me at all to see players who are naturally gifted offensively struggle so much right now. His messaging is NOT doing this team any favors at the moment, and quite frankly, it's starting to piss me off. I can only imagine how the players feel about it. They don't seem to be having too much fun these days.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Naitix

If they are not seeing each other then they should practice more until they do. It has been the same pp unit for 40 games, they had almost 4 months to practice it, they should be seeing each other. The only thing they do on the pp are perimeter and point shots, there is no way they practice actual set plays and never do them in a game. I think the coaching staff just wants them to get shots on net and nothing else

But why?

They had the 10th best powerplay last year. It was generally a move the puck quick, thread the seam powerplay working out of the corner and the left wall.

So this year he wants them to just get pucks on net? Why?

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

If you listen to Sutter pressers he constantly talks about this team as not having enough skill to play that kind of game and so they have to play "the right way" which is his way. Mentions shot volume a lot instead of making skillful plays. He also refers to them as a low-scoring team...but that again is due to style of play.

This honestly seems like a mind game to me. Constantly tell players they're not talented so they play to his system. It doesn't shock me at all to see players who are naturally gifted offensively struggle so much right now. His messaging is NOT doing this team any favors at the moment, and quite frankly, it's starting to piss me off. I can only imagine how the players feel about it. They don't seem to be having too much fun these days.

I think a good coach creates and implements a system that will be successful if the players buy in, and play to their potential. A great coach realizes when the system isn't working and is willing to make adjustments to maximize the current output of the roster.

This is where it feels we are right now. On paper, the system is good, and if everything was going well, it would be highly successful. But, obviously a number of things are off, and Sutter isn't willing to make adjustments to leverage where the team is right now.

I don't know if he's playing 4D chess while I'm playing checkers, but for the life of me, I can't see why Vladar didn't deserve the start last night. He came in cold, and allowed the team to at least salvage a point in Chicago. It really seems like an unwillingness to accept the circumstances and make adjustments.

[UKflames]

What were the post game presser questions? Did Sutter put someone down because they asked a tough question?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Good points about adjusting style of play and systems to fit your players and not force what you think in is your view on a way to play on a team that it doesn't fit with.

One of the best coaches in sports I would say is Andy Reid. That is why his teams are always so successful. He has won with different type of QB's and fit the team and system around their strengths and weakness.

Alex Smith look like an all-star under him, he resurrected Michael Vick.

Now look at the type of players he surrounds with Mahomes and system he runs. He isn't handing off the ball 50 times a game and throwing 2 yard screens because it's what he likes.