[PGT] Flames lose to Blues 4-3 OTL

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Meh. I don’t think I’ve been this apathetic towards a Flames team since 2013 when they traded Iginla. I’m finding it hard to care about them right now. I don’t find myself looking forward to games, and honestly I don’t find myself getting overly excited about wins right now.

I miss caring about this team, but I’m finding it difficult to find a reason to care right now. They’re not an elite team. They have no high end prospects coming. They have no elite talent on the current roster. They don’t play an exciting brand.

Sucks to say, but that is what happens when you lose 2 elite 100+ points players in a single off-season. Say what you want about both players "betrayal", greed, wife issues, lack of desire to win, whatever. Both those guys brought fans out of their seats on a night to night basis, even when the team was losing.

I know we were all excited thinking we "won" the FLA trade. But deep down I knew the team was losing a lot of the excitement factor and you could at least look forward to being entertained. Not sure what Huby is at this point. Extremely hard to believe he was considered a legit superstar over the past half-decade. I get trying to adapt to a new system. But I can't recall a single play this season where I thought he did something "magical" or got me out of my seat. All I see is a guy who is a class act in front of the mic, but often misses passes, sucks 1 on 1, has very few elite moves, and looks like a middle 6 forward most nights. Hasn't been a single game this season where he has legit taken over and you could point to him being the stand out 1st star of the night. Very disappointing. I guess the good news is his new contract doesn't kick in until next season, so maybe it takes him a year to figure things out here before he takes off.

Big Sutter fan here, but his choices are baffling. Seems to have lost the concept of icing your best possible roster night in and night out. Otherwise we'd have seen the younger guys being put in positions to succeed and Vladar in the net more often.

I still watch the games, albeit more in the background while doing something else. I think the team will struggle to get to the post-season ,but make it in. Will take a miracle to win more than a few games though, as every team seems to be a bad match up for them right now. God help us if we somehow play the Oilers again.

No choice but to ride the rest of the season out and pray they get it together at the right time. However Flames' history tells us that will not be the case.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just to be clear, it's okay to throw Markstrom under the bus today? Other post game threads where he's let in soft goals threads have been hijacked by posters determined to prove that he wasn't at fault.

A bit of the difference is one game he was put in a can’t win situation by the defensive structure of the rest of the five on the ice. Sure he could have been better positioned on a couple of those goals but he was hung out to dry.

This time he might as well have just tossed the puck into the net on that second goal. Every one of the 64 goalies in the NHL should be expected to handle that and not give up a rebound like that while opening up the net at the same time.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We’ve lost twice as many games as we’ve won the road. Cool.

noticed they're a pretty shyte road team this year

a lot better at stringing 60 minutes together at home

pretty good 40, but they dropped a deuce in the 3rd, and had no really strong attempts to score after the blue tied

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by sonq

Yes. You can't escape. Sometimes I wish I could just jump off, but the emotional tie can't be broken

You can check out but can never leave?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think the one thing that should be abundantly clear by now is that something just isn't right with Markstrom. Its half way through the year. The time to work through it has passed. Hopefully Sutter focuses on what gives them the best chance for a win at this point.

And what is that? People seem to act like Vladar has been some revelation, when in reality, he hasn't been all that much better than Markstrom as evidenced by his numbers (albeit in much less of a sample size).

Last 8 starts:
Vladar: 5-3 (.935/.875/.853/.893/.900/.931/.939/.909)
Markstrom: 4-3 (.852/.727/.960/.880/.917/.909/.913/.889)

I don't see a whole lot separating either goalie, and ultimately, until there is a wider divide, will have a hard time pinning everything on Markstrom. He let in a bad goal last night - the team was still in the lead and had every chance to bounce back....they didn't.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

And what is that? People seem to act like Vladar has been some revelation, when in reality, he hasn't been all that much better than Markstrom as evidenced by his numbers (albeit in much less of a sample size).

Last 8 starts:
Vladar: 5-3 (.935/.875/.853/.893/.900/.931/.939/.909)
Markstrom: 4-3 (.852/.727/.960/.880/.917/.909/.913/.889)

I don't see a whole lot separating either goalie, and ultimately, until there is a wider divide, will have a hard time pinning everything on Markstrom. He let in a bad goal last night - the team was still in the lead and had every chance to bounce back....they didn't.

He let in two bad goals last night - he has to make the save on the that third goal after letting a soft goal 30 seconds earlier.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

A bit of the difference is one game he was put in a can’t win situation by the defensive structure of the rest of the five on the ice. Sure he could have been better positioned on a couple of those goals but he was hung out to dry.

This time he might as well have just tossed the puck into the net on that second goal. Every one of the 64 goalies in the NHL should be expected to handle that and not give up a rebound like that while opening up the net at the same time.

Second goal was definitely the worst. I'm usually more forgiving of rebound goals because you can't expect goalies to give up zero rebounds, but hat one was bad.

I think the third looked worse than it was and Andersson's moving screen couldn't have been worse. He blocked the vision just at the wrong time.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

And what is that? People seem to act like Vladar has been some revelation, when in reality, he hasn't been all that much better than Markstrom as evidenced by his numbers (albeit in much less of a sample size).

Last 8 starts:
Vladar: 5-3 (.935/.875/.853/.893/.900/.931/.939/.909)
Markstrom: 4-3 (.852/.727/.960/.880/.917/.909/.913/.889)

I don't see a whole lot separating either goalie, and ultimately, until there is a wider divide, will have a hard time pinning everything on Markstrom. He let in a bad goal last night - the team was still in the lead and had every chance to bounce back....they didn't.

Since the start of December, Jacob Markstrom has started 14 times and faced a team in a playoff position JUST ONE TIME. He has lost 9 of those games. He has an .898SV% during that span.

Five of six of Vladar's start since December (and 9/12 on the year) have been against playoff teams. He also has points in seven straight starts.

Our supposed starting goaltender is getting served up a buttery soft schedule and is failing to consistently win us hockey games - while our backup is taking on the tough assignments with periodic starts and coming out with points. That's extremely telling.

Markstrom completely derailed what was damn near a perfect 40 minutes of road hockey last night with two completely deflating goals.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I still watch the games, albeit more in the background while doing something else. I think the team will struggle to get to the post-season ,but make it in. Will take a miracle to win more than a few games though, as every team seems to be a bad match up for them right now. God help us if we somehow play the Oilers again.

No choice but to ride the rest of the season out and pray they get it together at the right time. However Flames' history tells us that will not be the case.

I agree. I look up from whatever I'm doing to see a replay but hardly ever sit and watch the entire game. Very disappointing season. After 40 years of being a dedicated fan, I'm getting to the point where I just don't care. Markstrom, Huberdeau, Weegar and Anersson are the biggest no-shows. Too bad I don't get to see the Wranglers games.

[TheIronMaiden]

I am still clinging to hope that even if the Flames limp into the playoffs they can make a go of it.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Sucks to say, but that is what happens when you lose 2 elite 100+ points players in a single off-season. Say what you want about both players "betrayal", greed, wife issues, lack of desire to win, whatever. Both those guys brought fans out of their seats on a night to night basis, even when the team was losing.

I know we were all excited thinking we "won" the FLA trade. But deep down I knew the team was losing a lot of the excitement factor and you could at least look forward to being entertained. Not sure what Huby is at this point. Extremely hard to believe he was considered a legit superstar over the past half-decade. I get trying to adapt to a new system. But I can't recall a single play this season where I thought he did something "magical" or got me out of my seat. All I see is a guy who is a class act in front of the mic, but often misses passes, sucks 1 on 1, has very few elite moves, and looks like a middle 6 forward most nights. Hasn't been a single game this season where he has legit taken over and you could point to him being the stand out 1st star of the night. Very disappointing. I guess the good news is his new contract doesn't kick in until next season, so maybe it takes him a year to figure things out here before he takes off.

Big Sutter fan here, but his choices are baffling. Seems to have lost the concept of icing your best possible roster night in and night out. Otherwise we'd have seen the younger guys being put in positions to succeed and Vladar in the net more often.

I still watch the games, albeit more in the background while doing something else. I think the team will struggle to get to the post-season ,but make it in. Will take a miracle to win more than a few games though, as every team seems to be a bad match up for them right now. God help us if we somehow play the Oilers again.

No choice but to ride the rest of the season out and pray they get it together at the right time. However Flames' history tells us that will not be the case.

Totally agree with this.

In hindsight Tarasenko or others might have been a better fit than Huberdeau.

I got caught up in the hype without having seen him play much. Saw that 115 point number and then read all the "Are the Flames actually better?" articles. Huge disappointment.

Watching Chucky again last night, damn. Yes I know FLA's record but man are we missing a guy like that.

[Naitix]

I bet Huberdeau comes back to 100 point player once Sutter is gone, I really do not think he likes playing under him. Teams need to be built around your stars and utilize their potential. There were years where Johnny looked like a non-star player and people did not want him extended for over 8 million. Players have bad years, I would rather use an 8 year sample with Huberdeau rather than 40 game sample.

An easy example of his skills not being utilized is his east-west passing ability. Players need to be placed on the pp so that Hub can feed them one timers, but it is not right now. How many times has he made an amazing pass on the powerplay through 3-4 guys and Flames player not being ready to one time the puck. The pp is not structured to use his skills, it is built around "all of you are not skilled enough so just get the puck to the net".

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Totally agree with this.

In hindsight Tarasenko or others might have been a better fit than Huberdeau.

I got caught up in the hype without having seen him play much. Saw that 115 point number and then read all the "Are the Flames actually better?" articles. Huge disappointment.

Watching Chucky again last night, damn. Yes I know FLA's record but man are we missing a guy like that.

It's the Flames' way, isn't it? Win the off-season sweepstakes, only to #### the bed when the game are played during the season. Goes back many years this pattern.

Win the JayBo sweepstakes. Big woof.

Win the Neal sweepstakes. Yikes.

Win the Hamonic sweepstakes. Gross.

Win the Huberdeau trade. Yuck (as of now).

Obviously some good outliers like the Hamilton trade, then the Lindholm/Hanifin trades. But more often then not, seems like every time we "win" the off-season, this happens. It's like clockwork with this team, and it's hilarious yet sad.

Seems like it's the off-seasons where we fly under the radar and only make minor moves that the team puts it together.

I'm just rambling at this point. But 2 very disappointing losses in a row to teams we should have spanked don't give much faith going forward.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Naitix

I bet Huberdeau comes back to 100 point player once Sutter is gone, I really do not think he likes playing under him. Teams need to be built around your stars and utilize their potential. There were years where Johnny looked like a non-star player and people did not want him extended for over 8 million. Players have bad years, I would rather use an 8 year sample with Huberdeau rather than 40 game sample.

An easy example of his skills not being utilized is his east-west passing ability. Players need to be placed on the pp so that Hub can feed them one timers, but it is not right now. How many times has he made an amazing pass on the powerplay through 3-4 guys and Flames player not being ready to one time the puck. The pp is not structured to use his skills, it is built around "all of you are not skilled enough so just get the puck to the net".

And how many times has he made that same pass and coughed up the puck?

[Naitix]

Originally Posted by Teroy

And how many times has he made that same pass and coughed up the puck?

How many times did one of Tkachuk's blind passes or through the leg plays failed? Johnny would make the same east-west passes and mess them up all the time too. It is fine to make high risk plays on the powerplay, it is what it is all about, you just need to be ready to respond when they fail

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Naitix

I bet Huberdeau comes back to 100 point player once Sutter is gone, I really do not think he likes playing under him. Teams need to be built around your stars and utilize their potential. There were years where Johnny looked like a non-star player and people did not want him extended for over 8 million. Players have bad years, I would rather use an 8 year sample with Huberdeau rather than 40 game sample.

An easy example of his skills not being utilized is his east-west passing ability. Players need to be placed on the pp so that Hub can feed them one timers, but it is not right now. How many times has he made an amazing pass on the powerplay through 3-4 guys and Flames player not being ready to one time the puck. The pp is not structured to use his skills, it is built around "all of you are not skilled enough so just get the puck to the net".

Just so I'm clear ...

Last year they used the seam pass a lot ... Gaudreau over to Lindholm. Additionally they used the Tkachuk pass from behind the net through another seam to Lindholm or others in front.

Lindholm is still here. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are not.

Huberdeau has the passing talent to do either.

So are you saying Sutter isn't allowing them to make plays like that and has dummied down the powerplay?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Second goal was definitely the worst. I'm usually more forgiving of rebound goals because you can't expect goalies to give up zero rebounds, but hat one was bad.

I think the third looked worse than it was and Andersson's moving screen couldn't have been worse. He blocked the vision just at the wrong time.

I too get tired of the constant rebound complaints for goalies… but I gasped when that one happened. Just brutal.

[CroFlames]

Ol Peter Maher used to say that games 20-40 of the season show what a team really is.

Prepare yourselves for much of the same for the rest of the way. Hopefully we snag that WC spot since we ain't getting Bedard.

Remember, .571 in the playoffs gets you the Cup

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Since the start of December, Jacob Markstrom has started 14 times and faced a team in a playoff position JUST ONE TIME. He has lost 9 of those games. He has an .898SV% during that span.

Five of six of Vladar's start since December (and 9/12 on the year) have been against playoff teams. He also has points in seven straight starts.

Our supposed starting goaltender is getting served up a buttery soft schedule and is failing to consistently win us hockey games - while our backup is taking on the tough assignments with periodic starts and coming out with points. That's extremely telling.

Markstrom completely derailed what was damn near a perfect 40 minutes of road hockey last night with two completely deflating goals.

This is the bottom line. Sutter is trying to get Markstrom going by giving him the soft opponents, but all that is happening is that Markstrom is costing the team points. Points that they NEED.

It isn't November anymore. There isn't time to let Markstrom work it out. Lost points are affecting their chances of making the playoffs. These last two games were an opportunity to put some distance between us and the Oilers, Blues and Preds. That opportunity has been wasted.

It's time to play the guy that gives you the best chance of winning.

[Naitix]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Just so I'm clear ...

Last year they used the seam pass a lot ... Gaudreau over to Lindholm. Additionally they used the Tkachuk pass from behind the net through another seam to Lindholm or others in front.

Lindholm is still here. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are not.

Huberdeau has the passing talent to do either.

So are you saying Sutter isn't allowing them to make plays like that and has dummied down the powerplay?

Yes I think Sutter most definitely dummied down the powerplay, the only thing we do are point shots, there seems to be absolutely no set plays. I think we have enough talent to make the pp work.

The only thing that I think is much worse are zone entries, but once we are set up there is no reason for it to be that bad. No wonder the pp is so bad, when there are no set plays you have no way to recreate the way you score goals consistently. You rely on bodies screening the goalie and rebounds, that is more randomness.

Remember how Lindholm has that insanely fast release on the RW, why are we not using that? Are you telling me there is nobody on the team that can make that pass to him now that Johnny is gone. I saw them make that pass to Lindholm once on the pp in the last ~10 games and it was a good chance. If you take a look at last nights pp, there was a chance where Andersson had space and had Tofolli to his left for a one timer and he just shot it into the goalie for a rebound (6:25 left in the second period). They are not even looking for these opportunities, powerplay is all about moving the puck quickly and utilizing the fact that the other team is missing a player to get high danger chances, point shots are not high danger chances.

They either have no confidence to make passes or Sutter is telling them to just shoot the puck. I think it is a combination of both.