BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[flames_fan_down_under]

I agree with some of Locke's points in that there will be issues with government funding low income housing, and that some people genuinely prefer to be on the street than in a potentially unsafe situation in low income housing. But whether it's government funded or not that issue exists in all supportive housing. However those issues should not stop a government from providing more housing options for low income people, as it needs to be paired with, like afc mentioned, more mental health facilities and rehabilitation centers.

Like Locke said, NIMBYism is real in Vancouver. There is immense public pressure for more housing, however when a supportive housing project was proposed for 8th and Arbutus in Kits there was a massive amount of pushback from the community. Coleen Hardwick campaigned against the kits housing project in the last mayoral election and her campaign signs were everywhere in Kits. Anti-tower people on commercial drive are everywhere. Squamish nation is building a large development with affordable housing and that is getting a lot of resistance from locals in the area as well.

Also is the person who posted that saying that because they paid a lot of money for their apartment there should not be homeless people in their community? I think regardless of what you paid homeless people anywhere is an issue. This has been the issue in Vancouver for a while now. We were sort of passively accepting that the DTES was a mess but as long they stayed in that area then it's sort of "out of sight out of mind". Now that it is seeping into all corner of the city people seem to care more, which i guess is a good thing now.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Not sure what they expect to happen. If the City creates affordable housing, then everybody complaining about the homeless will say they don't deserve it and it should be allocated to some other low income group.

It's not wrong. A big part of it should be about creating affordable housing for people before they become homeless. There seems to be the notion that people become drug addicted and unemployable, then become homeless. This is certainly often the case, but it also happens in reverse a lot where someone becomes homeless, then becomes drug addicted.

Affordable housing for lower level income people before their situation is completely dire should be a target and may even be the best way to put a dent in this problem over the long term. Kind of like preventative health care before having to treat a disease. I would even extend that to mid-level income people in the Lower Mainland considering the cost of living.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by blankall

Just to clarify, Portugal doesn't send drug users to prisons, but it does send them to confined treatment centers. So they are forcing people to sober up. They're just doing it in a clinical setting. Some of these treatment centers would have fewer liberties than your average prison.

https://globalnews.ca/video/9380148/...ey-component-2

[Locke]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well it would help if BC had a reasonable long term humane and effective mental health facility and probably needs a good government funded rehabilitation facility as well

The real issue here is that when tackling something like this...it really needs to be a coherent, cohesive and comprehensive plan from start to finish.

It cant just be: "We'll put them in public housing and that'll be that! Problem solved!" *dusts off shoulders*

Or: "We'll implement mental health initiatives!!" *pats own back*

Or: "We'll build drug and alcohol rehabilitation facilities!" *dusts off hands*

Because if its not all of them in something resembling a plan then the house of cards is going to crumble.

And I should caveat that considering the thread we're in, that this is not at all unique to Vancouver or BC, if you want to tackle the problem, then tackle the problem. Otherwise you're just playing 'Whack-a-Mole' with the symptoms.

[flames_fan_down_under]

100%. Like the safe supply program on its own is essentially doing nothing to help addicted people. It needs to be done in concert with other treatment and mental health initiatives.

[afc wimbledon]

Vancouver has the problem that the majority of people on the DTES or homeless in Vancouver in general are not from Vancouver, most arent even from BC so it is both unreasonable and impossible to expect the City to take care of them, it's a Canadian issue not a local one.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Vancouver has the problem that the majority of people on the DTES or homeless in Vancouver in general are not from Vancouver, most arent even from BC so it is both unreasonable and impossible to expect the City to take care of them, it's a Canadian issue not a local one.

Huh? I didnt hear you, what was tha...oh hey! Look over there!

[8 Ball]

I don’t agree with almost anything Sliver says. But I think they take on building a massive structure where you can have homeless people come to is brilliant.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

I don’t agree with almost anything Sliver says. But I think they take on building a massive structure where you can have homeless people come to is brilliant.

How many people are we talking about here? Why not just get a Cruise Ship thats about to be de-commissioned and moor it?

Thats like 3,000-5,000 ready built rooms right there!

And then when people arent looking, sometime in the middle of the night you just...ya know...cast off the lines...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Vancouver has the problem that the majority of people on the DTES or homeless in Vancouver in general are not from Vancouver, most arent even from BC so it is both unreasonable and impossible to expect the City to take care of them, it's a Canadian issue not a local one.

This is a pervasive and incorrect myth

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/vanco...nal-report.pdf

I think the bigger issue is amalgamating the homeless into a homologous group. Lots of homeless are between jobs, financial catastrophes, family crisis, etc. We often think of them as drug addled bearded dirty masses who hate to work. Data says otherwise

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think the bigger issue is amalgamating the homeless into a homologous group. Lots of homeless are between jobs, financial catastrophes, family crisis, etc. We often think of them as drug addled bearded dirty masses who hate to work. Data says otherwise

Especially IN Vancouver with their housing crisis. In Calgary I think it's safe to say the majority of homeless are there because of drugs and/or mental illness, but in Vancouver there's likely a large chunk of regular people that just can't afford a home

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Especially IN Vancouver with their housing crisis. In Calgary I think it's safe to say the majority of homeless are there because of drugs and/or mental illness, but in Vancouver there's likely a large chunk of regular people that just can't afford a home

Right, but similar to Pharmacists' point, regular people who cant afford a place to live and hit the streets, it usually doesnt take long for them to join the ranks of the drug and alcohol troubled demographic.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

This is a pervasive and incorrect myth

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/vanco...nal-report.pdf

I think the bigger issue is amalgamating the homeless into a homologous group. Lots of homeless are between jobs, financial catastrophes, family crisis, etc. We often think of them as drug addled bearded dirty masses who hate to work. Data says otherwise

You post a link to a survey that says only 15% of the homeless have lived in Vancouver all their lives, so 85% of Vancouver's homeless are not from Vancouver, again I will say it is unreasonable to expect Vancouver to deal with Abbotsford of Kelowna or Calgary's problems

[Locke]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You post a link to a survey that says only 15% of the homeless have lived in Vancouver all their lives, so 85% of Vancouver's homeless are not from Vancouver, again I will say it is unreasonable to expect Vancouver to deal with Abbotsford of Kelowna or Calgary's problems

You know...I dont know what to tell you.

"So what?"

They're in Vancouver now and they're on Vancouver's streets. What do you propose? Check their ID to determine if Vancouver are going to help them or not? Good luck with that.

They kind of are allowed to move from Point A to Point B within the country.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know...I dont know what to tell you.

"So what?"

They're in Vancouver now and they're on Vancouver's streets. What do you propose? Check their ID to determine if Vancouver are going to help them or not? Good luck with that.

They kind of are allowed to move from Point A to Point B within the country.

The 2016 census had only 54% of Vancouver proper's population made up of people born in the city. It doesn't seem a sensible factor to take into consideration.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think it is fair to expect a municipal, provincial and federal response to the situation.

Looking at the Portugal example posted earlier, a few things stood out to me. The biggest thing of course is that Portugal didn't expect a quick fix. They implemented solutions and the results are being measured 30 years later. In general, North Americans tend to be much more individualistic. They want instant results, and they want others to take care of it. Portugal didn't look at is as "Lisbon's" problem, but a national problem. European countries also tend to have a greater sense of community and national pride. They would view the situation in Vancouver as a national disgrace, not just a local or regional problem.

Politicians are also a big problem. Most municipal politicians are so focused on their immediate careers, that they don't care what people think of them 30 years later. They are either trying to cling on to the current job, or use it as a jumping off point to their next job.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know...I dont know what to tell you.

"So what?"

They're in Vancouver now and they're on Vancouver's streets. What do you propose? Check their ID to determine if Vancouver are going to help them or not? Good luck with that.

They kind of are allowed to move from Point A to Point B within the country.

I'm not arguing their right to move to Vancouver, I'm pointing out homelessness in Vancouver is a Federal problem, that asking Vancouver to build housing for anyone that rocks up looking to escape the sub zero temperatures of the prairies is absurd, the city cant afford it

[Locke]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I'm not arguing their right to move to Vancouver, I'm pointing out homelessness in Vancouver is a Federal problem, that asking Vancouver to build housing for anyone that rocks up looking to escape the sub zero temperatures of the prairies is absurd, the city cant afford it

I would agree with that, I think we should have a National policy, the problem is that a lot of the supplemental issues surrounding Homelessness, the Drugs and Alcohol and Mental Health issues fall under Provincial health jurisdiction.

So now we have all 3 levels of Government not cooperating with each other.

Oh yeah...this is going to go well. This cant miss.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it is fair to expect a municipal, provincial and federal response to the situation.

Looking at the Portugal example posted earlier, a few things stood out to me. The biggest thing of course is that Portugal didn't expect a quick fix. They implemented solutions and the results are being measured 30 years later. In general, North Americans tend to be much more individualistic. They want instant results, and they want others to take care of it. Portugal didn't look at is as "Lisbon's" problem, but a national problem. European countries also tend to have a greater sense of community and national pride. They would view the situation in Vancouver as a national disgrace, not just a local or regional problem.

Politicians are also a big problem. Most municipal politicians are so focused on their immediate careers, that they don't care what people think of them 30 years later. They are either trying to cling on to the current job, or use it as a jumping off point to their next job.

Its a lot easier when they're geographically more compact.

Its easy for Ottawa to put Vancouver's homeless problem out of their minds when its 4,500 kms away and they can label it a Civic and/or Provincial issue.

They've got 'Get Out Of Jail Free' cards coming out of their ears on this.

They shouldnt. But they do. I agree it should be a National concern. Will it be? Somehow I doubt it.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its a lot easier when they're geographically more compact.

Its easy for Ottawa to put Vancouver's homeless problem out of their minds when its 4,500 kms away and they can label it a Civic and/or Provincial issue.

They've got 'Get Out Of Jail Free' cards coming out of their ears on this.

They shouldnt. But they do. I agree it should be a National concern. Will it be? Somehow I doubt it.

Agreed. It makes sense to be treated as a federal policy issue with joint federal-provincial-municipal solutions regardless of where it is in Canada, because the causes are complex and require solutions like that, but I'm skeptical that there would be the political will to get that going given how regional incentives conflict with each other.