Flames Mount Rushmore Round Two

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

When it comes to historical legacies, and commemoration it is best practice to ask what someone's principal legacy is before taking action. As such the question is not about morality, or political views. The question is Theo's principal legacy his hockey, social work, or his political involvement? If his principal legacy is still hockey, then his politics shouldn't matter. I think there lots of gray area but rightly or wrongly his principal legacy is increasingly politics. Hard to say what the fans want, but I understand why the Flames don't want to open this can of worms.

Outside of a few CalgaryPuckers who are really left wing and his strong direct right wing followers that think Fleurys opinions matter , I would wager the large majority of people in Calgary have no clue what Fleurys political opinions are . If you polled a room of people I can guarantee 90% have never read a single thing he’s said

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Firstly, no one won cup"s" for the Flames.

Secondly, don't be surprised if Fleury's past history of sexual abuse at the hands of Graham James has affected him to this day.

I am willing to overlook his behaviour since he quit hockey and base my opinion on his hockey playing ability.

Agree on the first, though there were certainly a few guys that were bigger contributors than others in 89. As for his past though, it's undoubtedly true.
But there were other victims who didn't become asses. Kennedy, Huscroft, etc.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Fleury won a Cup.

So did Dana Murzyn. And if we're talking contributions to that cup, he's behind at least 10 guys.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But he was sort of right . Let’s not act like he was trashing a team that has been overly successful the past 30 years

Would be similar to trashing Lucic today and saying he hasn’t scored in 50 games .

Whether or not he was correct (he wasn't) trashing a team that (a) got you unsuspended and (b) gave you a tryout is bad form.

I think Fleury was maybe the most talented Flame ever, right up with Nilsson. Above Gaudreau, Iggy, Newy, Mullen, Makarov as far as speed, puckhandling goalscoring and shiftiness goes. I think he could have been MVP a few times if he kept it together. But I'm just over him.

[Jason14h]

Bad form for sure . But it wasn’t out of character for who he was . He was an ass on the ice , he was an ass off the ice . In fact it could easily be argued he was at least genuine in who he was . And his past shaped who he was massively .

Fleury has done more good for the community of Calgary then Kipper ever did for example .

You have to take the good with the bad with him . It is just who he is

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Bad form for sure . But it wasn’t out of character for who he was . He was an ass on the ice , he was an ass off the ice . In fact it could easily be argued he was at least genuine in who he was . And his past shaped who he was massively .

So what? It still removes him from contention IMO.

Theo was always in it for Theo. In every aspect of his post- WHL life.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So what? It still removes him from contention IMO.

Theo was always in it for Theo. In every aspect of his post- WHL life.

That fine , I can buy the argument . But for our Mount Rushmore I don’t personally think politics matters .

What if we say “Theo Fleury - NHL star , Motovational Speaker , Author , and abuse victim advocate, who accurately called out the organization failings of the Flames which continue to this day “ vs “ Right Wing Nut” (who not everyone agrees on this opinion for right or wrong )

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He identifies and a Blue and went into the Hall as a blue

Our Mount Rushmore shouldnt include a player who identifies his career with another team

That actually is really sad that we have so few real options in 40 years

In the hockey HOF you don't enter it representing a team like baseball. MacInnis is my all time favourite player so he's my next pick.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Fire

In the hockey HOF you don't enter it representing a team like baseball. MacInnis is my all time favourite player so he's my next pick.

Thanks was misremembering . He was inducted into the Blues Hall of Fame and his jersey retired . I thought he went into the HoF as a Blue

https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-ca...eek-100782228/

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Fire

In the hockey HOF you don't enter it representing a team like baseball. MacInnis is my all time favourite player so he's my next pick.

I'm with you. maybe its because I"m a long suffering small market/Expos guy but how the player identifies doesn't have to impact my feelings as a fan


both Dawson and Carter (who had far far more productive seasons/careers as Expos who also drafted and developed them) wanted to go into the Hall as Cubs/Mets because $$ mostly, I don't begrudge them that, but to me they are Expos


Chopper was drafted by the Flames, won a cup as a Flame, played more games as a Flame, had nearly twice as many points as a Flame, had double the career plus minus as a Flame, was a post season all star more often as a Flame (5:2), had nearly twice as many playoff points as a Flame, had his 8 highest scoring seasons as a Flame- as a fan he's as much (MORE!) a Flame than he is a Blue


yeah its a bummer to me he identifies as a Blue but that's cool. I'm not sure the whole Mount Rushmore needs to be Alberta/ Western Canada guys



he left at 30, so did Vernon (who came back briefly), so did Fleury

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Outside of a few CalgaryPuckers who are really left wing and his strong direct right wing followers that think Fleurys opinions matter , I would wager the large majority of people in Calgary have no clue what Fleurys political opinions are . If you polled a room of people I can guarantee 90% have never read a single thing he’s said

By that metric how many people can name 5 players on the roster?

[Psytic]

Honestly Fleury was my favourite Flame for the longest time. We should separate the man from the art. A lot of famous and revered historical figures were pedophiles or racists, etc. we could do a lot worse than Theo's Twitter account. He did a lot for the sport and battled many demons. He had a tough life and some people deal with it differently than others. Purely on ice he is #2 for me. He wore his heart on his sleeve every game. He should be in the HoF if you ask me.

[bubbsy]

This is tough after iggy.

Tough to give guys that didn't win a cup (giordano, kipper, gaudreau), and of the cup winners, tough to find guys who were here for the longevity of their career primes (MacDonald was on the tail end, maccInis, Nieuwendyk, Mullen, gilmour all have equal or greater legacies in other organizations). Iginla is different for me, as during his prime years in Calgary, there was little doubt that he was top 3 wingers in the game.

I shockingly feel it's easier to put lifers like whale/maher on the list.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

This is tough after iggy.

Tough to give guys that didn't win a vote (giordano, kipper, gaudreau), and of the cup winners, tough to find guys who were here for the longevity of their career primes (MacDonald was on the tail end, maccInis, Nieuwendyk, Mullen, gilmour all have equal or greater legacies in other organizations). Iginla is different for me, as during his prime years in Calgary, there was little doubt that he was top 3 wingers in the game.

I shockingly feel it's easier to put lifers like whale/maher on the list.

Lifers (or close to) = Backlund, Gio, Reg, I guess. Of those I guess you could make an argument for Gio - he was a top Dman in the game and had maybe the most interesting career arc.

[TheIronMaiden]

Hot Take:

People who love Fleury are short.

[the-rasta-masta]

Voted McDonald last time and was going to vote Iggy 2nd, so obviously McDonald it is.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

No Lynn Loyns as an option. I'm no longer interested in this excercise. No credibility.




(I just like bringing up Lynn Loyns whenever I can. All name team captain for me.)

[gilligans_off]

Kipper, Lanny and Fleury for me. Iggy was an easy one.

HM: Regehr and Gio

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Second highest points producer in franchise history is just a "bunch of points"? You clearly have no interest in speaking honestly about his hockey accomplishments.

Iginla only made it past the first round once as a Flame, and has no cup, does that diminish his hockey achievements?

You can set whatever benchmark you want for this but you just aren't speaking in realistic terms if you're trying to downplay how good Fleury was as a hockey player.

Fun fact: Fleury only made it past the first rd once, too (rookie year where he was 10th on the team in playoff points).

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Fun fact: Fleury only made it past the first rd once, too (rookie year where he was 10th on the team in playoff points).

Yes. A long list of Flames with that stat line, unfortunately.
I wasn't diminishing Iginla at all btw, he is clearly the GOAT...point was that Fleury putting up franchise record setting point production on a non playoff team was still a great accomplishment, despite the team's lack of success. Same with Iginla.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Yes. A long list of Flames with that stat line, unfortunately.
I wasn't diminishing Iginla at all btw, he is clearly the GOAT...point was that Fleury putting up franchise record setting point production on a non playoff team was still a great accomplishment, despite the team's lack of success. Same with Iginla.

For sure. But the same is true for Gaudreau, who hasn't had a sniff of this conversation.

[GioforPM]

For reference:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/tea...rs_career.html