You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Right. Like, literally nothing is worth having my daughter grow up without a dad, or worse tending to a vegetable, because I couldn’t just leave a situation. Sweet every year there’s a coupon of deaths from people who just hit their head after a fight.

Even without injury, who the fuxk had time for these altercations? Man, I’m trying my best to get the #### I need done, done. Ain’t nobody got time to waste frontin some stranger

This is especially nice to hear from a Hells Angels member

[calf]

Originally Posted by Muta

My Gen Z staff always needing time off, taking multiple appointments a month (and of course, during the day, not before work / at lunch / after work), requesting to work from home all the time, never putting in a minute more past 5 PM, or becoming sick on the slightest whim RGMG. I've noticed this over the last few years, and it just increased during and after the pandemic. I sure hope it's just a complete coincidence, or they're easily the most high maintenance generation of workers ever, haha. I'll go back to yelling at my cloud now.

Those are just the excuses they use while they go to job interviews.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dude, Gen Z totally has it right. I've learned a lot from them.

One of my staff is a boomer and her husband is in the hospital right now and will be for the next three weeks. I finished a conversation with her this morning where I encouraged her to visit him during the day (just bust out for a couple hours, paid) so she could have her evenings to wind down. It's very stressful to work all day, then go to the hospital all night. I don't want to see her doing that.

People shouldn't work a minute past five. You shouldn't want to steal people's time. It's literally theft.

Five days a week/40+ hours a week is absurd. I hope this new generation keeps forcing change.

Fair enough, that's your opinion. I don't think 5 days a week / 40 hours a week is absurd (in fact, that is completely normal almost everywhere), but that's just me. I love what I do though.

I can agree on the working past 5 thing, no one has to do it of course. But when you're on salary though (not hourly), and you have deadlines, and the work quality isn't terrific... I dunno. This is where I've put in that extra effort in my career, and it's paid off handsomely.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by calf

Those are just the excuses they use while they go to job interviews.

They must suck at job interviews then.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Muta

Fair enough, that's your opinion. I don't think 5 days a week / 40 hours a week is absurd (in fact, that is completely normal almost everywhere), but that's just me. I love what I do though.

I can agree on the working past 5 thing, no one has to do it of course. But when you're on salary though (not hourly), and you have deadlines, and the work quality isn't terrific... I dunno. This is where I've put in that extra effort in my career, and it's paid off handsomely.

But a salary is for 8 hours/day. If you're going to expect them to work late - or at least look down on them for not working late - then pay them an overtime rate for every minute they stay past five rounded up to the nearest 15 minutes. Otherwise you're taking advantage of them; profiting off their labour with no benefit to them aside from some vague assurance of future wealth from their sacrifice for the team. Maybe that isn't you expecting them to provide you with slave labour, but it's too close for my comfort. I will not allow my people to work for me for free. If they stay two minutes late, I'm paying them 15 minutes. I'm not interested in taking money out of my people's pockets.

Maybe you allowed yourself to be exploited earlier in your career, but I don't think that means other people need to submit to your exploitation now.

I don't think 40 hours/week with just three weeks off/year (all that's required in Alberta) is standard everywhere else. Is it better than the USA? Probably, but I think it's worse than pretty much every other western country.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Muta

Fair enough, that's your opinion. I don't think 5 days a week / 40 hours a week is absurd (in fact, that is completely normal almost everywhere), but that's just me. I love what I do though.

I can agree on the working past 5 thing, no one has to do it of course. But when you're on salary though (not hourly), and you have deadlines, and the work quality isn't terrific... I dunno. This is where I've put in that extra effort in my career, and it's paid off handsomely.

5/40 is only normal because it was where the last labour vs business fight ended. Instead of using automation to further reduce the work week over the last 50 years we have used it to reduce the cost of goods and increase consumption.

Also when you say everywhere in China it is not 5/40, Japan whether prescribed or not is not 5/40, in the US and Canada Salaried rolls have led to 5/40 being not as standard as it used to be.

Essentially union weakness has allowed work hours not to be reduced over time as automation has given society the option.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Dude, Gen Z totally has it right. I've learned a lot from them.

One of my staff is a boomer and her husband is in the hospital right now and will be for the next three weeks. I finished a conversation with her this morning where I encouraged her to visit him during the day (just bust out for a couple hours, paid) so she could have her evenings to wind down. It's very stressful to work all day, then go to the hospital all night. I don't want to see her doing that.

People shouldn't work a minute past five. You shouldn't want to steal people's time. It's literally theft.

Five days a week/40+ hours a week is absurd. I hope this new generation keeps forcing change.

Definitely this. I spent too long working my bag off and getting nothing in return, I'm glad people are starting to realize your employer generally doesn't give a #### about you. Put in your required hours and get the hell out of there. 4 day work weeks are perfect, and now I do two 24 hour shifts a week which seems like a lot of hours, but it's also effectively 5 days off a week and I love it

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Definitely this. I spent too long working my bag off and getting nothing in return, I'm glad people are starting to realize your employer generally doesn't give a #### about you. Put in your required hours and get the hell out of there. 4 day work weeks are perfect, and now I do two 24 hour shifts a week which seems like a lot of hours, but it's also effectively 5 days off a week and I love it

Just curious how does this work? Cause obviously you can't work 48 hours straight, you need some time to sleep.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

He didn't say he did them consecutively... but yeah, I feel like I'd need two of those five days just to recover.

Anyway, must be nice to have employment laws apply to your job.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

He didn't say he did them consecutively... but yeah, I feel like I'd need two of those five days just to recover.

Anyway, must be nice to have employment laws apply to your job.

It's pretty wild looking at this from another perspective.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But a salary is for 8 hours/day. If you're going to expect them to work late - or at least look down on them for not working late - then pay them an overtime rate for every minute they stay past five rounded up to the nearest 15 minutes. Otherwise you're taking advantage of them; profiting off their labour with no benefit to them aside from some vague assurance of future wealth from their sacrifice for the team. Maybe that isn't you expecting them to provide you with slave labour, but it's too close for my comfort. I will not allow my people to work for me for free. If they stay two minutes late, I'm paying them 15 minutes. I'm not interested in taking money out of my people's pockets.

Maybe you allowed yourself to be exploited earlier in your career, but I don't think that means other people need to submit to your exploitation now.

I don't think 40 hours/week with just three weeks off/year (all that's required in Alberta) is standard everywhere else. Is it better than the USA? Probably, but I think it's worse than pretty much every other western country.

My staff absolutely get paid overtime, that isn't the issue. They get properly compensated for all the work they do. I think you're missing the point a bit; this isn't a 'labour' issue at all; no one is 'exploiting' anyone, and I have never been 'exploited' in my career like you claim - it's clear you know nothing about my industry, but that's fine, I don't expect you to. My observation is that my Gen Z staff operate in a different capacity than my other staff. Like I said, I hope it's all just a one-off coincidence.

[Ozy_Flame]

Harvard Business Review - When Quiet Quitting Is Worse Than the Real Thing

... Driven by many of the same underlying factors as actual resignations, quiet quitting refers to opting out of tasks beyond one’s assigned duties and/or becoming less psychologically invested in work. Quiet quitters continue to fulfill their primary responsibilities, but they’re less willing to engage in activities known as citizenship behaviors: no more staying late, showing up early, or attending non-mandatory meetings.

At first glance, this may not seem problematic. After all, these employees aren’t disengaging from their core tasks — they’re just refusing to go beyond them. But for many companies, a workforce that is willing to go beyond the call of duty is a critical competitive advantage. The reality is that most jobs can’t be fully defined in a formal job description or contract, so organizations rely on employees to step up to meet extra demands as needed. As such, it’s hardly surprising that many leaders have reacted quite negatively to the quiet quitting trend. Indeed, many leaders we’ve spoken with have argued that losing employees who want to leave is difficult, but having them not quit is even worse, as their unwillingness to go the extra mile often increases the burden on their colleagues to take on extra work instead.

Furthermore, while going above and beyond can come at a cost for employees, in a healthy organization, these costs are typically counterbalanced by benefits such as increased social capital, wellbeing, and career success. The quiet quitting trend suggests that employees are increasingly feeling that this exchange has become unbalanced: Employers are demanding additional effort from workers without investing in them enough in return. And critically, as the economic outlook worsens and outright quitting becomes less feasible for many people, this quiet alternative is likely to become increasingly common.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Muta

This is where I've put in that extra effort in my career, and it's paid off handsomely.

HA! I have learned nothing is based on merit anymore, have heard this promise over and over again. "Do this and we'll consider you for this" uh huh, sure. You'll promise the team that they will see a promotion or something, team could be 5 people or more, but yet only one promotion will be available in the next 3 years to them. Nor will they see raises over 2%.

I know someone will respond with "not all employers". That's great, but I've yet to find one that actually rewards extra/hard work and provides merit based advances. They just provide false promises.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Just curious how does this work? Cause obviously you can't work 48 hours straight, you need some time to sleep.

One day on, two days off, one day on, four days off. And there's definitely usually down time to nap, or browse CP

[Muta]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

HA! I have learned nothing is based on merit anymore, have heard this promise over and over again. "Do this and we'll consider you for this" uh huh, sure. You'll promise the team that they will see a promotion or something, team could be 5 people or more, but yet only one promotion will be available in the next 3 years to them. Nor will they see raises over 2%.

I know someone will respond with "not all employers". That's great, but I've yet to find one that actually rewards extra/hard work and provides merit based advances. They just provide false promises.

Laugh all you want, not all employers are out to #### over staff. I'm not, and never will be.

At the end of the day though, if you really want full freedom in everything you do, start your own business and be your own boss. I don't think that's some earth-shattering revelation.

[getbak]

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its funny, I'm as non-confrontational as they come but I have had a couple of road rage incidents and they have all been hilarious.

My favourite, absolute favourite was when a woman and I had a traffic mix-up, I couldnt even tell you what happened it was so long ago, and then we ended up going to the same place and she thought I was following her.

She just happened to be going to a business a few doors down from my office.

"Well I'm glad you're here! I want to talk to your Boss!!"

Cool. I unlock my office, walk in and sit behind my desk.

"What can I do for you?"

She just sputtered and stuttered and left.

But honestly...what do people think is going to happen in this scenario? Even absolute best case??

"In my opinion your employee drives like a jerk!"

What would any rational person expect the reaction to be to that?

It depends.

Do you work at the Jerk Store?

[BrolyTheUnholy]

Originally Posted by Muta

My Gen Z staff always needing time off, taking multiple appointments a month (and of course, during the day, not before work / at lunch / after work), requesting to work from home all the time, never putting in a minute more past 5 PM, or becoming sick on the slightest whim RGMG. I've noticed this over the last few years, and it just increased during and after the pandemic. I sure hope it's just a complete coincidence, or they're easily the most high maintenance generation of workers ever, haha. I'll go back to yelling at my cloud now.

A work-life balance is important. Everything you're complaining about is not work-life balance. WLB is so, so healthy and makes for better workers.

[btimbit]

If their work is #### and they're missing deadlines, that's a different issue than refusing to stay late. But after covid yeah, I would hope more people are now realizing they should stay home if they're sick

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I think it all depends on the situation. I’m all for an employer giving me time for normal appointments like dentist, doctor, eye doctor etc. even stuff like mechanic to do tire swaps is reasonable if it’s only a couple hours. I even get personal days that I can take in half day increments but usually for 1 or 2 hour absences I’m not even required to use them.

It seems a bit of a stretch to have multiple appointments every month. Who has 24-36 doctor, dentist etc appointments a year?

Even if you have sickly children that is a lot.

I suspect the numbers OP provided are exaggerated or they really are a bad employee. Those numbers are whack.