[News] Zohorna recalled. Phillips and DeSimone assigned to Wranglers

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I just get the feeling he’s never going to be given a real shot. He was the leading scorer in the AHL. What more is he supposed to do?

Sutter wants him to grow taller

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I just get the feeling he’s never going to be given a real shot. He was the leading scorer in the AHL. What more is he supposed to do?

I know it is hard but maybe we have to look at this rationally. I'm sure he got feedback while he was with the club on what he needs to work on. He may have been the leading scorer but there are a lots of players that never get a shot. If size is an issue maybe he needs to bulk up. We all want him to succeed, he has worked really hard to get to this point, but sometimes thats how things roll. A lot of us had these same concerns with Oliver Kylington but he found a way to play Darryls game to Darryls expectations dispute not getting an opportunity with other coaches.

Darryl is tough and has high standards, I think that goes along with his lofty goals. Philips is just going to have to find a way to show he belongs. It is frustrating but in the end we have to be rational about it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hope the Flames don't get it wrong on Matthew Phillips and he goes on to be a star. Would think we can all agree on that.

He could be an example of poor development.

But for now I'm still waiting on that list I asked for three weeks ago ... where are the players that should have been recalled in Calgary but were not, walked and became impact players in other cities?

Without that list there really isn't a leg to stand on in my opinion.

Why does that exact narrative have to be fulfilled?

The NHL is a chicken-and-egg league.

If the Flames failed to give a potentially NHL calibre player an opportunity - that becomes a self-fulfilling outcome independant of opportunity with another team - because the majority of NHL teams prioritize the prospects in their own system. The converse us also true - if a team gives a non NHL-calibre player an opportunity - it becomes an equally self-fulfilling outcome that a guy like Kevin Rooney can get hot for a handful of games and score himself a two year one way contract in free agency.

Not all NHL calibre players get NHL opportunity. With the Flames this seems to be a theme, and I don't think a guy like Morgan Klimchik had needed to be an impact player to have potentially had a Blake Coleman type career if given a Blake Coleman type opportunity. Instead we paid 5M year for a past-his-prime Blake Coleman. And therein lies the problem. Of course it might have been more humiliating if, for instance, an Oliver Kylington had been claimed on waivers and proceeded to have a season like he did last year, or even better (he was hardly given a ton of opportunity last year himself). But that is missing the key point - that the Flames refuse to see what they have.

Not all players that get copious NHL opportunity elsewhere are NHL calibre. But the only way to know is to see what you have by giving kids a shot. Bill Peters sort of started them on the right path as he really enabled Mangiapane and Andersson (and to a lesser extent Kylington - also driven out by Treliving acquiring Fantenberg) but since his tenure the Flames have regressed to the same issues that have plagued them under every coach not named Peters or Hartley for thr last 30+ years. The Flames think they are able to assess players in practice and preseason, but fail to recognize that their own biases will always influence such an evaluation.

Asking for such a list is ignoring the larger point. That successful organizations give their own drafted players more opportunity to sink or swim. The only excuses not to are

A) Genuinely Contending for a Stanley Cup - which the Flames have not come close to in decades. The bar for this organization is winning a playoff round.
B) Atrocious amateur scouting - which is evidently not the case with the Flames outsixe of perhaps the goalie position. The Flames have shown to be one of the better amateur scouting organizations in the league despite the deficit in picks. Which makes the lack of opportunity more baffling.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

Sutter wants him to grow taller

Yes, but does Sutter want him to be a Baller? Or get a girlfriend...so he could call her?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hope the Flames don't get it wrong on Matthew Phillips and he goes on to be a star. Would think we can all agree on that.

He could be an example of poor development.

But for now I'm still waiting on that list I asked for three weeks ago ... where are the players that should have been recalled in Calgary but were not, walked and became impact players in other cities?

Without that list there really isn't a leg to stand on in my opinion.

Well the Flames did have an offensive 4th overall pick that they buried in their deep lineup and never really played with offensive players. In his 111 games with his new team he has scored at a 62 points per 82 game pace. But he was not buried in the minors.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by timbit

You’re the guy who called Lucic the worst player in the NHL.



It most certainly appears that he is not.

This is the part that gets the most. The lack of respect for a guy who has played over 1,000 games and is frequently mentioned as a teammate that others love having on the team, who earns his spot on the lineup from NHL coaches, albeit getting scratched recently which isn't surprising given where his career is at, but getting called out for not being an NHL player and likely the worst player in the entire league. The "worst player in the entire league" comments, in my opinion at least, is completely not necessary. One can say others should maybe get a look instead of him without saying that. A different way to characterize a player, I guess.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I just get the feeling he’s never going to be given a real shot. He was the leading scorer in the AHL. What more is he supposed to do?

Show up when on the NHL roster?

You have to take a spot in the NHL. Was he better than Ritchie? Lucic? Lewis?

He wasn't. Maybe he'll get another chance to be. People crapping on Rooney signing. Well he's not here is he? Why? Ruzicka decided he wanted to stay in the NHL, that's why.

[Mindtravellee]

It's been a while since Phillips had played a game. Probably went down to get some k's in the legs. He'll be back up soon

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Coach

Show up when on the NHL roster?

You have to take a spot in the NHL. Was he better than Ritchie? Lucic? Lewis?

He wasn't. Maybe he'll get another chance to be. People crapping on Rooney signing. Well he's not here is he? Why? Ruzicka decided he wanted to stay in the NHL, that's why.

Yep. Ruzicka will peak around 27-28 i would guess and kind of fade away at 32. He could be a nice piece for this team if they ever get their #### together. Like Anisimov.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I know it is hard but maybe we have to look at this rationally. I'm sure he got feedback while he was with the club on what he needs to work on. He may have been the leading scorer but there are a lots of players that never get a shot. If size is an issue maybe he needs to bulk up. We all want him to succeed, he has worked really hard to get to this point, but sometimes thats how things roll. A lot of us had these same concerns with Oliver Kylington but he found a way to play Darryls game to Darryls expectations dispute not getting an opportunity with other coaches.

Darryl is tough and has high standards, I think that goes along with his lofty goals. Philips is just going to have to find a way to show he belongs. It is frustrating but in the end we have to be rational about it.

I’m not really worried about it. I don’t think he’ll be around next year is all I was saying. If I was his agent I’d be telling him to move on.

[DeluxeMoustache]

If his agent is worth his salt, of course he tells him to move on

Flakes should expect this as an organization. It is glaringly obvious

Tough spot for a RFA. But Tre is reportedly a good person

Should be interesting

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Why does that exact narrative have to be fulfilled?

The NHL is a chicken-and-egg league.

If the Flames failed to give a potentially NHL calibre player an opportunity - that becomes a self-fulfilling outcome independant of opportunity with another team - because the majority of NHL teams prioritize the prospects in their own system. The converse us also true - if a team gives a non NHL-calibre player an opportunity - it becomes an equally self-fulfilling outcome that a guy like Kevin Rooney can get hot for a handful of games and score himself a two year one way contract in free agency.

Not all NHL calibre players get NHL opportunity. With the Flames this seems to be a theme, and I don't think a guy like Morgan Klimchik had needed to be an impact player to have potentially had a Blake Coleman type career if given a Blake Coleman type opportunity. Instead we paid 5M year for a past-his-prime Blake Coleman. And therein lies the problem. Of course it might have been more humiliating if, for instance, an Oliver Kylington had been claimed on waivers and proceeded to have a season like he did last year, or even better (he was hardly given a ton of opportunity last year himself). But that is missing the key point - that the Flames refuse to see what they have.

Not all players that get copious NHL opportunity elsewhere are NHL calibre. But the only way to know is to see what you have by giving kids a shot. Bill Peters sort of started them on the right path as he really enabled Mangiapane and Andersson (and to a lesser extent Kylington - also driven out by Treliving acquiring Fantenberg) but since his tenure the Flames have regressed to the same issues that have plagued them under every coach not named Peters or Hartley for thr last 30+ years. The Flames think they are able to assess players in practice and preseason, but fail to recognize that their own biases will always influence such an evaluation.

Asking for such a list is ignoring the larger point. That successful organizations give their own drafted players more opportunity to sink or swim. The only excuses not to are

A) Genuinely Contending for a Stanley Cup - which the Flames have not come close to in decades. The bar for this organization is winning a playoff round.
B) Atrocious amateur scouting - which is evidently not the case with the Flames outsixe of perhaps the goalie position. The Flames have shown to be one of the better amateur scouting organizations in the league despite the deficit in picks. Which makes the lack of opportunity more baffling.

Not sure what you're saying.

That there won't be a list because ... why?

Calgary doesn't promote a player and the rest of the league just leaves him be? That doesn't make any sense to me.

You're essentially saying the other 31 teams have the exact same opinion which brings me back to my original point doesn't it? There really isn't any proof that Calgary is unique or harder on young players than other organizations.

And Coleman vs Klimchuck?

Coleman is an elite play driving two way forward on a contract that makes sense. Klimchuk played in two other organizations after leaving Calgary, if he had Blake Coleman pedigree he's still be playing.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well the Flames did have an offensive 4th overall pick that they buried in their deep lineup and never really played with offensive players. In his 111 games with his new team he has scored at a 62 points per 82 game pace. But he was not buried in the minors.

Heard a few Hartley horror stories from that era on how he managed young players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I’m not really worried about it. I don’t think he’ll be around next year is all I was saying. If I was his agent I’d be telling him to move on.

Assuming Phillips spends the rest of the season at AHL, there is zero chance he'll be back with the Flames.

Many teams would want him to bolster their AHL club, but he'll choose a team (if there is one) that promises a real NHL chance.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I’m not really worried about it. I don’t think he’ll be around next year is all I was saying. If I was his agent I’d be telling him to move on.

Pelletier and Pettersen's agents should also be looking elsewhere for opportunities.

With Sutter signed for another 2.5 seasons and nothing but big kids taken in the last two drafts, it's obvious that the Flames org is no longer a place for small players.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure what you're saying.


And Coleman vs Klimchuck?

Coleman is an elite play driving two way forward on a contract that makes sense. Klimchuk played in two other organizations after leaving Calgary, if he had Blake Coleman pedigree he's still be playing.

There is no comparison between Coleman and Klimchuk
One is a legit NHLer , the other is not

But you are stretching it when you add his contract makes sense

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

There is no comparison between Coleman and Klimchuk
One is a legit NHLer , the other is not

But you are stretching it when you add his contract makes sense

I don't know ... if you only look at production he should be a $3.5M player (sorting salaries and production / 60).

Value of non production is subjective, but I personally don't have much trouble finding $1.4M from his playing driving abilities, penalty killing, cup pedigree and leadership.

[Reggie Dunlop]

At the end of the day, Phillips came up short.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't know ... if you only look at production he should be a $3.5M player (sorting salaries and production / 60).

Value of non production is subjective, but I personally don't have much trouble finding $1.4M from his playing driving abilities, penalty killing, cup pedigree and leadership.

Yeah I guess it depends on if the team is winning

On a contender I can see it makes sense

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Heard a few Hartley horror stories from that era on how he managed young players.

That player did play his rookie season under Hartley (ironically his best season as a Flame). Hartley stuck him with Backlund and Frolik on the clear second line for most of that year. Subsequently the Flames tried him out in more of a 3rd and 4th line role.