[News] Zohorna recalled. Phillips and DeSimone assigned to Wranglers

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Am I going nuts now or was he not in the NHL last week?

Don’t worry Scorp, if anyone is suffering from a mental illness in this conversation it is very obviously not you.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

He's referring to the poor draft success when Sutter was the GM post 2004.k

no.

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think they'll have to rely significantly on external scouting because they were consistently unable to draft during his first tenure and their last two draft classes since he returned are thoroughly underwhelming.

.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Actually, that is completely unreasonable. The average tenure of an NHL coach is around three years, and most drafted players don't turn out one way or the other for at least three years after being drafted.



Paulie attacks posters with great regularity.

Who am I attacking? You see a post and start attacking opinions including mine because I don't think Karlsson is good for 11 million.

You attacked the Scorpion because he said Phillips didn't get a chance here.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

no.
.

Uh huh...

They just had a habit of picking big guys who couldn't skate when he was GM in the 2000s and they've kind of returned to that trend in the last two years. It's a sharp contrast from most of their draft classes in the 2011-2016 range.

All but two (Coronato, Beck) of the players they've taken in the last two drafts have been 6'2" or bigger. It's been almost a complete 180 from Treliving's earlier drafts with the Flames — and basically right on par with their drafts under Darryl in the 2000s.

I think it's pretty fair to point out a trend like that, especially when their 2021 draft class is not looking real strong with the ELC decision day less than six months away. The guys they drafted out of the CHL, in large part, have completely stagnated.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

You're talking about both, and I addressed the latter part. So again, no. We have no idea how those drafts will turn out. 2021 draft had guys who barely played, some drafted that year didn't play. They selected three guys last season, hardly enough information to start digging for patterns.

Oh, Sutter is also the coach.

The guys they drafted out of the CHL, in large part, have completely stagnated.

Because some guys literally didn't play their draft year

[jayswin]

The accusations and discussion of possible defamation or libel by a poster for criticizing a coach for how players are handled and reading into what the motivations of said coach could be is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen on this site.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Basically, you're accusing Sutter of deliberately ruining hockey players' NHL careers because he is too stupid to give ice time to rookies. I'd say a case could be made that that's defamatory, and it would be very hard to make the defence that it is actually true.

This is the biggest stretch and one of the stupidest posts I’ve seen on this site.

Saying Sutter doesn’t like giving ice time to young players is in no way defamatory.

Also I don’t get why people get so up in arms when people say the Flames don’t like giving prospects or young players a shot instead of veterans…it’s a fact.

The organization would prefer to give the Ritchie, Richardson, Simon, etc level of veteran player a shot before a young player. It’s not really a discussion, that’s just how this organization is managed.

This organization loves to sign no upside veterans for bottom 6 and bottom pairing roles and did before Sutter was coach too.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Basically, you're accusing Sutter of deliberately ruining hockey players' NHL careers because he is too stupid to give ice time to rookies. I'd say a case could be made that that's defamatory, and it would be very hard to make the defence that it is actually true.

I am almost positive that the defence of fair comment would apply (unless you are saying the comments by Scorp are malicious in nature). Unless someone could say that the Flames drafted well under Sutter, in which case his comments would not be based in fact. But you would have to be an absolute idiot to say the Flames drafted well during the Sutter years, having only 10 out 59 players play 100 NHL games, compared to 14 out of the next 40 picks the Flames made after Sutter left.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Yanda

Philips was only recalled to get him a Christmas Bonus

I believe he actually earns less, due to escrow while with the Flames.

[ben voyonsdonc]

^ I don’t believe that to be the case. Phillips makes $140k in the AHL and $750k in the NHL. Yes, he pays escrow in the NHL but he’s definitely earning more in the NHL despite that.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Am I going nuts now or was he not in the NHL last week?

Also, I dunno, think you might be defaming me and anyone else who believes Phillips is a decent player. That's how it works, right?

Dude, your like a 21 year old kid who needs to calm down. You need to be a little more professional in your public takes before it sullys your career. Trust me I've been there . At your age I was on my way to being the next chris mills in cooking but ahit happened. . Just chill
Don't get to attached to players as a writer. There will be others .

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

^ I don’t believe that to be the case. Phillips makes $140k in the AHL and $750k in the NHL. Yes, he pays escrow in the NHL but he’s definitely earning more in the NHL despite that.

Yep you're correct. For some reason I thought he was on a 1-way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Dude, your like a 21 year old kid who needs to calm down. You need to be a little more professional in your public takes before it sullys your career. Trust me I've been there . At your age I was on my way to being the next chris mills in cooking but ahit happened. . Just chill
Don't get to attached to players as a writer. There will be others .

Why do people like you, Jay Random, and others post stuff like this? Why go to this well?

Mike is where he is because of who he is and the talent and insight into the game he has. He doesn’t need randoms on a message board who never accomplished anything in the field to tell him how to do his job. He’s not a kid who needs to calm down, he’s a professional doing a job you’re unqualified for and spending his free time chatting here. There’s nothing remotely unprofessional about his takes, and even if there was, this is his free time and you’re less equipped to evaluate what a “professional” hockey take looks like than he is. You don’t have to agree with anything he says or treat his opinions any different than anyone else is, but you should at least give him the minimum amount of respect he’s earned (and he’s earned it).

Mike has chosen to make who he is and what he does public knowledge. It’s a shame some of you use it to belittle him. And the defamation stuff is just incredibly dumb. You guys are 2-4 times his age (and he’s still accomplished more in hockey than you). But you don’t act it. I love a bit of agitating myself, but you guys need to calm down on the personal stuff and acting like you’re his career coach. It’s embarrassing.

[Naitix]

I do not understand why some of you get so aggressive when we try and defend Phillips. He showed improvement every year, he is a local kid who had to go against the odds at every level, he plays the exact game that the Flames are missing from their lineup - it is not hard to see why some posters want to see him given a fair chance.

There is no reason why he should not have been put into some games last week, like the second back-to-back one, it just makes no sense. He was given ~12 minutes of ice time where he hardly could get into the game due to shift inconsistency from all the penalties and he showed that he is not a liability defensively.

We all know he has the offensive skills but what we do not know is do they translate to the NHL, so why is it so hard to try and find out? What would be the worst thing is you give Phillips a couple of games with actual ice time? He coughs up the puck an they score, he does not get a point and he is useless, whatever then send him down.

The issue is having a player that could potentially solve some of your issues (####ty pp, ####ty zone entries, ####ty off the rush play) but refusing to implement a solution.

Nobody knows if Phillips can solve those issues if we are being truly honest, and if Sutter "knows" Phillips won't be an NHL players, that is a huge issue, because he really does not know

[dirk diggler]

well at least Phillips was given a fair chance. If i am Phillips, i look to sign with a new organization when the time comes.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

well at least Phillips was given a fair chance. If i am Phillips, i look to sign with a new organization when the time comes.

Yeah it's one of those things where it's just not going to happen for him with the Flames and no amount of back and forth arguing is going to change that. Darryl for whatever reason just doesn't think he's a fit for his lineup and if he doesn't like a guy, it's simply never going to happen for that player as long as he's head coach. Phillips is still getting paid and will get a better opportunity next season and hopefully he lands in a good spot and things work out but nothing is guaranteed.

There are pros and cons to Darryl Sutter. The highs can be very high but there's an associated cost of building a roster to his liking as when things don't go well you are left with an old and slow team much like the Kings post Stanley Cup that are just good enough to hang around for a wild card playoff spot but overmatched against fast and talented teams.

[calumniate]

Flames win? Guess not lol

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There are pros and cons to Darryl Sutter. The highs can be very high but there's an associated cost of building a roster to his liking as when things don't go well you are left with an old and slow team much like the Kings post Stanley Cup that are just good enough to hang around for a wild card playoff spot but overmatched against fast and talented teams.

Be careful not to perjure yourself.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Be careful not to perjure yourself.

Ha ha not worried Scorp. You are on the right track here as the team is slow and their last few drafts terrible, but the reality is that this is the way it's going to be until the Flames next coaching change. Hiring Darryl Sutter is like hiring Torts. You know what you are going to get good and bad.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why do people like you, Jay Random, and others post stuff like this? Why go to this well?

Mike is where he is because of who he is and the talent and insight into the game he has. He doesn’t need randoms on a message board who never accomplished anything in the field to tell him how to do his job. He’s not a kid who needs to calm down, he’s a professional doing a job you’re unqualified for and spending his free time chatting here. There’s nothing remotely unprofessional about his takes, and even if there was, this is his free time and you’re less equipped to evaluate what a “professional” hockey take looks like than he is. You don’t have to agree with anything he says or treat his opinions any different than anyone else is, but you should at least give him the minimum amount of respect he’s earned (and he’s earned it).

Mike has chosen to make who he is and what he does public knowledge. It’s a shame some of you use it to belittle him. And the defamation stuff is just incredibly dumb. You guys are 2-4 times his age (and he’s still accomplished more in hockey than you). But you don’t act it. I love a bit of agitating myself, but you guys need to calm down on the personal stuff and acting like you’re his career coach. It’s embarrassing.

This 100%

And being a writer doesn’t mean he’s no longer allowed to have opinions about things that’s he’s posting here.

And as a fan I’d rather have media/broadcasters that actually are critical of the team and ask the questions the fans want to hear. Better than most of the media that just love to kiss ass of the team and Sutter every opportunity.

The media should have asked about Phillips sitting to Sutter every single day, even if he’s going to answer like a petulant child like he did when he was asked earlier.

Darryl Sutter has refused to give Matthew Phillips a real look going back to 20-21 season when the team was eliminated and playing mean nothing games against Vancouver and we were still dressing Joakim Nordstrom for some reason. It’s obvious Sutter isn’t willing to give him a real look at his size, don’t think it’s crazy to call that out.