Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Really?

Really. You're claiming that the standings put the Flames in 20th place, when you know perfectly well that's not how the standings are calculated.

As for the rest of it, we'll see how the standings look at the end of the season. Three wins against San Jose and Anaheim suggest that maybe there's something to this strength of schedule business after all.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by jroc

I think it's fair... for instance, if it's the stretch drive going into the playoffs, and team A goes 0-0-10 for 10 points, while team B goes 5-5-0 for 10 points... who would you rather hitch your wagon too?

There's no 3 on 3 or shootouts in the playoffs, so 0-0-10 still says team A isn't easy to beat, I'd probably put my wagon onto that team.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Really. You're claiming that the standings put the Flames in 20th place, when you know perfectly well that's not how the standings are calculated.

As for the rest of it, we'll see how the standings look at the end of the season. Three wins against San Jose and Anaheim suggest that maybe there's something to this strength of schedule business after all.

Nope. I pretty clearly provided a screenshot of the league standings to show their ranking in the league.

Then I wrote this in a follow-up to a suggestion I was to make them look bad by using league rankings instead of division rankings.

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Because they need to beat the best of the league to win. Showing a better looking ranking in a weak division instead of a ranking against the whole league would be more deceptive for a 'win now' team.

I could have shown their ranking by winning percentage instead, which would put them at 20th in the league and just barely above Vancouver. That would make them look worse, but it would still be fair. It's not like I'm fudging the numbers. Their numbers are what they are. Hopefully they get better.

I pretty clearly did not say that the standings put them in 20th. I very clearly said that they are 20th in the league if ranked by winning percentage.

So, maybe you should read things more carefully before you post.

I agree on seeing how things look at the end of the season though. I've made the point elsewhere in this thread that they play the games for a reason and nothing is settled until the games are all played. The Flames could end up cup champs, or they could end up not qualifying.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I pretty clearly did not say that the standings put them in 20th. I very clearly said that they are 20th in the league if ranked by winning percentage.

You said this:

Yet here you are calling me ridiculous for just taking the data that's there in the records while you're dreaming up a system for calculating points that doesn't even exist in the league?

That ‘system that doesn't even exist’ is in fact the official standings. Your claim was downright crazy. Enoch Root pointed out that a 3-2-1-0 system, if it were used (as many people have suggested over the years), would not be materially different from the official standings in this case. You have to simply throw out all points for OTL/SOL to arrive at the silly conclusion you did. So in fact it is you who are using a system that does not exist, and claiming:

That would make them look worse, but it would still be fair.

In what way is it supposed to be fair to use a cherrypicked number to make the team look worse than it is?

So, maybe you should read things more carefully before you post.

Maybe you should think things through more carefully before picking a hill to die on.

I agree on seeing how things look at the end of the season though. I've made the point elsewhere in this thread that they play the games for a reason and nothing is settled until the games are all played. The Flames could end up cup champs, or they could end up not qualifying.

That doesn't stop you from proclaiming this:

Win now mode not going so great at the moment...

As if the standings in December, when teams are balanced neither in number of games played, nor home vs. road games, nor quality of opponents faced, were indicative of how any team is going to perform during the next three years.

[dino7c]

Lol he is still doubling and tripling down on this!

By his logic Calgary was ahead of Montreal in the season they made the finals and Calgary missed the playoffs

Dude you made up fake standings to make the Flames look worse...multiple people have called you on it. Take the L and move on with your life

[tvp2003]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1607881717024522240

Chucky pumping up Maurice’s tires again, takes a shot at Calgary at the end?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

https://twitter.com/user/status/1607881717024522240

Chucky pumping up Maurice’s tires again, takes a shot at Calgary at the end?

This interview is obviously from early in the year...some of what he says isn't aging well.

One of the best teams, best home teams....uh, not quite there guy. How about below .500 and nearly out of the race at Christmas

[mile]

"We're going to win multiple cups in Florida"

[FBI]

Has anyone ever shown standings by win % before??

[Johnny Makarov]

Jesus. We are past the "winning" in the regular season. It's all playoff success with our team and Sutter. We ARE NOT missing the playoffs.

I mean we played like crap with some putrid goaltending and some pretty unimpressive #s from our 115 point player, and we are still in a playoff spot.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You said this:



That ‘system that doesn't even exist’ is in fact the official standings. Your claim was downright crazy. Enoch Root pointed out that a 3-2-1-0 system, if it were used (as many people have suggested over the years), would not be materially different from the official standings in this case. You have to simply throw out all points for OTL/SOL to arrive at the silly conclusion you did. So in fact it is you who are using a system that does not exist, and claiming:



In what way is it supposed to be fair to use a cherrypicked number to make the team look worse than it is?



Maybe you should think things through more carefully before picking a hill to die on.



That doesn't stop you from proclaiming this:



As if the standings in December, when teams are balanced neither in number of games played, nor home vs. road games, nor quality of opponents faced, were indicative of how any team is going to perform during the next three years.

What is this claim you think I was making that's downright crazy?

I pretty clearly said what were the standings and what was a ranking of the teams based on winning percentage. I've been pretty clear that win % ranking is different from standings, just like ranking teams based on points % is not standings, or ranking teams based number of Swedish players is not standings. It's just a ranking based on a statistical category. It is a ranking produced very directly from the data in the results tables and it does tell you something about how a team is doing with regards to winning, but it is not standings.

The 3-2-1-0 system by contrast, doesn't exist in the NHL and actually directly contradicts the NHL's system because it is a method of creating league standings based on assigning values to results in a way that contradicts how the league assigns values to results. It's not directly derived from the league tables, it's not the official standings, and it doesn't exist in the NHL.

Is that what you think I was saying that is crazy, because the only other claim I was making is that they're 17th in the league standings in points according to how the NHL actually assigns points, they're 20th in league rankings of win % based on the data in the league tables, and that's not things going great for a 'win now' team.

If you want to make an argument that a team in win now mode is doing great while winning less than half their games and ranking dead middle of the pack for points, go ahead. It really seems to me like a season not going great so far for a win now team.

And, you know what, it's totally fair to comment on how things are going now while saying that the ending could be good or could be bad. There's nothing the least bit weird about saying things aren't going great right now, but they could end up fine, or they could end up even worse. Maybe the Flames go on a huge tear soon and rocket up the standings. Maybe they suffer a bunch of injuries and illnesses that drop them well out of playoff contention. Sports is like that. That is why they play the games and don't just decide the final standings based expected results based on rosters or how tough opponents are supposed to be.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

https://twitter.com/user/status/1607881717024522240

Chucky pumping up Maurice’s tires again, takes a shot at Calgary at the end?

There was plenty of speculation after the whole puck flip incident that would fit with him really feeling that way for at least one period of his time in Calgary. Maybe less a shot than just letting that out.

Definitely pumping Maurice's tires though.

[Strange Brew]

A snapshot of league wide standings really has some fans triggered.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

A snapshot of league wide standings really has some fans triggered.

They weren't league standings...they omitted OTL points for obvious reasons.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

There was plenty of speculation after the whole puck flip incident that would fit with him really feeling that way for at least one period of his time in Calgary. Maybe less a shot than just letting that out.

Definitely pumping Maurice's tires though.

This interview was from early November before they were 10 points out of a playoff spot on December 27th

[SutterBrother]

Sam Bennett with 2 points in his last 10 games.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They weren't league standings...they omitted OTL points for obvious reasons.

I look at league wide standings and Flames are 17th. That’s based on points. It can’t be very different based on points percentage since teams in front of them have games in hand.

[SutterBrother]

Mark Jankowski has 3 points in his last 10 games.

[Steve Bozek]

Wrong thread - sorry.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I look at league wide standings and Flames are 17th. That’s based on points. It can’t be very different based on points percentage since teams in front of them have games in hand.

okay

nobody was arguing that...other than its kinda irrelevant when it comes to playoffs...it was the cherry picked standings omitting what the NHL awards points for that people thought were in fact cherry picked.

I could post the "standings" only including Tuesday and Saturday games if that fit my argument but it wouldn't really be relevant.

The big name former Flames won't be playing in the playoffs this season in all likely hood...current Flames to be determined but it seems likely to me looking at various factors