[News] Zohorna recalled. Phillips and DeSimone assigned to Wranglers

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Sorry, Paulie. ‘Flames suck because I say so’ isn't actually an opinion, it's emotional vomit. Try again when you've got something else to say.

I am referring to your wall of text about Erik Karlsson being some sort of awesome player because his plus minus says so. Nothing about the Flames.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Uh no. I just think he should be given an opportunity. I think his upside is as a third-line forward. The rest is all your projection. This is embarrassing, frankly.

All my projection? I've been reading your posts about Phillips for years. You've given me the impression that you're practically foaming at the mouth.

Pro tip: ‘Projection’ means attributing to another person something that one actually thinks or feels oneself. I don't think Phillips is an NHLer, I don't think he is ever likely to be, and I don't think the Flames have been systematically holding back prospects. I'm not projecting any of those claims onto you; you make them all by yourself.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I am referring to your wall of text about Erik Karlsson being some sort of awesome player because his plus minus says so. Nothing about the Flames.

Two-time Norris Trophy winner Erik Karlsson? Yeah, he is some sort of awesome player, and it has nothing to do with his plus/minus.

You're the silly person who claimed that his offensive production isn't enough to make up for his bad defence, when his team's results on the ice clearly show that it is. But I'll cut you some slack, you clearly don't understand numbers and react with anger and rudeness whenever anyone mentions them.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

All my projection? I've been reading your posts about Phillips for years. You've given me the impression that you're practically foaming at the mouth.

Pro tip: ‘Projection’ means attributing to another person something that one actually thinks or feels oneself. I don't think Phillips is an NHLer, I don't think he is ever likely to be, and I don't think the Flames have been systematically holding back prospects. I'm not projecting any of those claims onto you; you make them all by yourself.

The only reason the posts have been occurring for years is because the opportunity hasn't come. Nevertheless, this exchange is very unhealthy and actually extremely embarrassing for you. There are other people in this thread who have suggested the Flames are impeding the progress of "Gaudreau 2.0" — if you're attributing comments like that to me, you are sorely mistaken.

Of all the ridiculous comments in this thread (and I've been guilty of a couple), your last four or five take the cake. Good grief. Or is that defamation too?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Two-time Norris Trophy winner Erik Karlsson? Yeah, he is some sort of awesome player, and it has nothing to do with his plus/minus.

You're the silly person who claimed that his offensive production isn't enough to make up for his bad defence, when his team's results on the ice clearly show that it is. But I'll cut you some slack, you clearly don't understand numbers and react with anger and rudeness whenever anyone mentions them.

Yeah I am the silly person, go back and look at your history with Ian Cole and the Mitchell guy.

Now saying because they have the opinion that Sutter sucked at drafting that's defamation.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I totally messed up the facts on Pelletier's height, I'll admit to that lol. L

You didn't mess up facts, you went out of your way to mention you've met them both (congrats) and they're similar in size. The gap is wide, Phillips is one of the tiniest guys that would be playing in the NHL, probably on the top ten small guy list. Pelletier would probably go on the undersized but doesn't matter list.

It's a big blooper

[tvp2003]

I’d post a reply here but my lawyer has advised me not to.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

You didn't mess up facts, you went out of your way to mention you've met them both (congrats) and they're similar in size. The gap is wide, Phillips is one of the tiniest guys that would be playing in the NHL, probably on the top ten small guy list. Pelletier would probably go on the undersized but doesn't matter list.

It's a big blooper

Big blooper indeed. They don't look that different in person. Both very strong AHLers. If you watch them on the ice, they play pretty similar games.

You gonna call out the ridiculous defamation comments? I'd posit they're around 15 orders of magnitude more absurd.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think they'll have to rely significantly on external scouting because they were consistently unable to draft during his first tenure and their last two draft classes since he returned are thoroughly underwhelming.

lol what? Which draft picks is Darryl Sutter responsible for? The last three drafts they've had two picks that are inside the top forty, and they didn't pick until the 59th pick last year, only selecting a total of three players.

The 2020 draft is looking decent with Zary, Kuznetsov and Poirier all finding their games early in the AHL. 2021 has Coronato selected at 13, but again that draft was a year ago and I'm not sure what Sutter has to do with any of the picks, good or bad.

[Kasi]

It’s not unreasonable to think that a team drafts players that fit their coaches style and the last draft after round one was filled with a bunch of big and slow types.

Defamation comment is completely puzzling. Are we going to arrest Skip Bayless and Sid Seixeiro and Steve Simmons and Eric Francis and all the other media pundits? It’s completely fine to question a coaches decisions whether that be playing time, promotions, lineups, how they answer the media, etc.

For the Toronto Blue Jays last two years if you go look at the threads here posters constantly questions Montoyo’S decisions, his personality, his character, how he connected with the team and all that. And it was okay. There is zero reason for anyone to protect Sutter. That scrutiny comes with being a big league coach.

But this is a worrying thing I keep seeing on this forum. Posters respond to posters criticizing the Flames personal by attacking the posters. Why is it that okay for posters to attack others for criticizing the flames? Paulie might have his overreactions and strong takes but he’s not attacking other posters but he constantly gets attacked. I make a series of posts commenting on promotion decisions and several days later I get attacked in a pregame thread I didn’t even post in.

[TheScorpion]

I wasn't even trying to criticize Sutter's character. They just had a habit of picking big guys who couldn't skate when he was GM in the 2000s and they've kind of returned to that trend in the last two years. It's a sharp contrast from most of their draft classes in the 2011-2016 range.

They've picked the odd guy with strong upside (Coronato especially) but most of the guys from the 2021 draft class already look like longshots to get ELCs — and that deadline is coming up very soon for the CHLers.

Not for a moment do I think Sutter has anything on his mind beyond winning and I find it incredibly strange that people are putting words in my mouth suggesting he's set out to sabotage careers or what have you. Do I think, in trying to win, he sometimes prefers veteran players who he knows and trusts over prospects who might have more upside? Yes, and I think that's the same for pretty much every NHL coach to an extent.

(I also take a little offense to being compared to Steve Simmons. Wtf?)

[Kasi]

No just saying that if we are going to go that route there is a billion dollar industry built on saying far worse things. Simmons is an awful person and has said some horrible things but he’s still around sadly. Sports media (and fandom) is based on questioning decisions and such. Always has.

[Harry Lime]

There seems to be a misconception that Phillips is a poor defensive player, or can't play the cycle because of his size. From what I've seen he is firmly average, which considering his gifts offensively should be enough to see him through to the next level. I think that this is my biggest gripe with him not seeing time with the NHL club.

He has nothing to prove at the AHL level. Nothing really to work on.

I also see him as an effective third liner with powerplay time.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

There seems to be a misconception that Phillips is a poor defensive player, or can't play the cycle because of his size. From what I've seen he is firmly average, which considering his gifts offensively should be enough to see him through to the next level. I think that this is my biggest gripe with him not seeing time with the NHL club.

He has nothing to prove at the AHL level. Nothing really to work on.

I also see him as an effective third liner with powerplay time.

He didn't look out of place with the small sample Sutter gave him, he made some nice plays and played good D. This is not unnoticed around the league.

Sutter is defiantly hooked on big and it might cost us Coronado this spring.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wasn't even trying to criticize Sutter's character. They just had a habit of picking big guys who couldn't skate when he was GM in the 2000s and they've kind of returned to that trend in the last two years. It's a sharp contrast from most of their draft classes in the 2011-2016 range.

They've picked the odd guy with strong upside (Coronato especially) but most of the guys from the 2021 draft class already look like longshots to get ELCs — and that deadline is coming up very soon for the CHLers.

Not for a moment do I think Sutter has anything on his mind beyond winning and I find it incredibly strange that people are putting words in my mouth suggesting he's set out to sabotage careers or what have you. Do I think, in trying to win, he sometimes prefers veteran players who he knows and trusts over prospects who might have more upside? Yes, and I think that's the same for pretty much every NHL coach to an extent.

(I also take a little offense to being compared to Steve Simmons. Wtf?)

On one side we have you trying to clarify your position and on the other is another forum member making personal attacks.

Are we going to see any moderation on how this I going or is that allowed here.

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[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

lol what? Which draft picks is Darryl Sutter responsible for? The last three drafts they've had two picks that are inside the top forty, and they didn't pick until the 59th pick last year, only selecting a total of three players.



The 2020 draft is looking decent with Zary, Kuznetsov and Poirier all finding their games early in the AHL. 2021 has Coronato selected at 13, but again that draft was a year ago and I'm not sure what Sutter has to do with any of the picks, good or bad.

He's referring to the poor draft success when Sutter was the GM post 2004.

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[Harry Lime]

The point of sports as a whole is to allow the general population an outlet for loyalty/discussion/aggression in a rather positive and harmless way. This is usually done through the dissemination of statistics, history and first hand observation. You are allowed to engage in this pastime through any stream that you can imagine, to any extent that you feel comfortable. The administration, owners, management players all open themselves up to any and all types of criticism within the parametres of the sport, and they are compensated extremely well at the higher levels for enduring the scrutiny.

For those who are new to sports and feel the need to lawyer up and politicize the one thing that is intentionally kept separate as possible from 'real world' legalities and politics. Criticizing anything within the sphere of the game itself fair game, as is the acceptance or support of those opinions. Bad opinions don't last long.

Good day, sir.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The only reason the posts have been occurring for years is because the opportunity hasn't come.

No, the only reason the posts have been occurring for years is because you think Phillips deserves the opportunity and nobody in the NHL agrees with you.

Nevertheless, this exchange is very unhealthy and actually extremely embarrassing for you.

Unhealthy? Where did you go to medical school exactly?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Kasi

It’s not unreasonable to think that a team drafts players that fit their coaches style

Actually, that is completely unreasonable. The average tenure of an NHL coach is around three years, and most drafted players don't turn out one way or the other for at least three years after being drafted.

Paulie might have his overreactions and strong takes but he’s not attacking other posters but he constantly gets attacked.

Paulie attacks posters with great regularity.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, the only reason the posts have been occurring for years is because you think Phillips deserves the opportunity and nobody in the NHL agrees with you.

Am I going nuts now or was he not in the NHL last week?

Also, I dunno, think you might be defaming me and anyone else who believes Phillips is a decent player. That's how it works, right?