Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Johnny Makarov]

Or Preston Manning.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1605931619055017984

How would this work? Alberta passes a law saying car-makers don't need to comply with this reg. Dares the Feds to take them to court, which they won't. They'll just fine car makers who don't comply with federal regs, regardless what the province says. Which side are the car-makers going to take? dah!

Or set their own regulations mandating % of ICE vehicles sold in the province? That might work for a while if the rest of the country buys enough EVs to make the national quota, but at some point carmakers will need to break the Alberta law or just stop selling here.

Dumb idea is dumb

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This is a really good explanation from pension experts on the CPP/proposed APP and details why the plan is pretty dumb. Highly recommend reading the whole thing, it covers lots of areas.

https://abpolecon.ca/2021/09/29/what...-to-albertans/

This looks like a giant expensive load of ####. It's like Brexit, but even dumber.

But Slava keeps telling me that the Alberta government can't impose politics onto pension funds that they run.

Even if they weren't able to, which they are. I would not trust the morons that these morons tend to appoint to management my money.

And beyond that, I have no doubt in my mind that if in 2019 Jason Kenny had control of an APP, and had scheduled a press conference for 2:00 in the afternoon. He could have stood that at 2:45 saying the APP was going to invest $1.5B into KeystonXL, and it would have happened. Weather or not he had consulted with the fund managers in advance. As this article stays, it good that ideologically opposed governments need to work together to agree on who will have their hands on the wheel for CPP.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't think it's that messy though. You just have people leaving one pension plan and moving to another. That kind of thing happens all the time, and it's not insurmountable.

But of course, just because we can do that and it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean that we should.

But how do you handle the liabilities/existing holdings? Did you read the entire article I posted? It lays out some pretty big stumbling blocks.

Now, if we want to start from scratch, I guess that could maybe be done, but then we abandon a lot of money. The other provinces aren't just going to hand it over. We have zero leverage here.

I think this is another case of Smith being told a stupid idea, and her running with it without considering how the sausage gets made.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But how do you handle the liabilities/existing holdings? Did you read the entire article I posted? It lays out some pretty big stumbling blocks.

Now, if we want to start from scratch, I guess that could maybe be done, but then we abandon a lot of money. The other provinces aren't just going to hand it over. We have zero leverage here.

I think this is another case of Smith being told a stupid idea, and her running with it without considering how the sausage gets made.

Wouldn't they try for that everyone who has already paid into CPP, you would get both that plus your ALberta pension, and eventually most people will just be on the Alberta, unless they move to or from another province?

I mean, it's still spectacularly stupid.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But how do you handle the liabilities/existing holdings? Did you read the entire article I posted? It lays out some pretty big stumbling blocks.

Now, if we want to start from scratch, I guess that could maybe be done, but then we abandon a lot of money. The other provinces aren't just going to hand it over. We have zero leverage here.

I think this is another case of Smith being told a stupid idea, and her running with it without considering how the sausage gets made.

That would a CPP/Fed issue although Alberta and the other provinces would have to agree to the final evaluation. Realistically though, if the CPP legislation provides the option for provinces to back out maybe they should also have the framework for determining assets and liabilities written into the legislation as well.

Let's not forget that the idea of creating a provincial pension plan is not really a new concept as the Ontario Liberals were taking about pulling out less than ten years ago under Wynne's leadership.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by edslunch

How would this work? Alberta passes a law saying car-makers don't need to comply with this reg. Dares the Feds to take them to court, which they won't. They'll just fine car makers who don't comply with federal regs, regardless what the province says. Which side are the car-makers going to take? dah!

Or set their own regulations mandating % of ICE vehicles sold in the province? That might work for a while if the rest of the country buys enough EVs to make the national quota, but at some point carmakers will need to break the Alberta law or just stop selling here.

Dumb idea is dumb

The rest of Canada in 2035: We have slick electric cars! They accelerate instantly! They don't have emissions! They require less maintenance! Hooray!!
Alberta: Come to Sovereign Alberta where we still have polluting gas cars dodge rams!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

That would a CPP/Fed issue although Alberta and the other provinces would have to agree to the final evaluation. Realistically though, if the CPP legislation provides the option for provinces to back out maybe they should also have the framework for determining assets and liabilities written into the legislation as well.

Let's not forget that the idea of creating a provincial pension plan is not really a new concept as the Ontario Liberals were taking about pulling out less than ten years ago under Wynne's leadership.

They do not.

The Canada Pension Plan legislation permits a province to withdraw from the plan if it sets up an equivalent plan. Under the CPP legislation, an Alberta plan would inherit liabilities for all benefits workers earned while working in Alberta since 1966. Because so many Canadians have moved into and out of Alberta since then, determining Alberta’s liabilities would not be easy.

There is no detailed formula in the CPP legislation for determining Alberta’s share of the total liability. A likely way of determining it would be to use the same proportion as the proportion of total contributions and the related pension credits attributable to Alberta workers over the years. The total contributions are in respect of all those who have CPP credits for any period worked in Alberta, not just those currently working in Alberta.

https://abpolecon.ca/2021/09/29/what...-to-albertans/

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Not if she gets voted out.

So let's vote her the #### out.

You know what....I've felt this for a long time.

We need some form of mechanism that allows us to trigger an election.

What the UCP did with Smith is beyond BS. We need something to prevent this from happening.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know what....I've felt this for a long time.

We need some form of mechanism that allows us to trigger an election.

What the UCP did with Smith is beyond BS. We need something to prevent this from happening.

Jason Kenney's final F-U to Alberta before going back home.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They do not.

That is what I am trying to get at. It seems pretty poorly thought out to have legislation with an exit policy but nothing included for how an exit would take place. Seems pretty half-baked to me.

[Ozy_Flame]

Recall legislation is in place, but it's near impossible to actually use.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

That is what I am trying to get at. It seems pretty poorly thought out to have legislation with an exit policy but nothing included for how an exit would take place. Seems pretty half-baked to me.

"CPP was created in *checks notes* 1965 but I'm sure if we think about it we can figure out a way to pin this on Justin Trudeau!" -Danielle Smith's War Room, probably.

[Dion]

Danielle Smith is doing a great job of making sure the NDP wins the next election. It's as if she's handing the election to Notley on a silver platter.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Dion

Danielle Smith is doing a great job of making sure the NDP wins the next election. It's as if she's handing the election to Notley on a silver platter.

Frankly? I hope so.

There is nobody else in any leadership capacity that I wouldnt flush down a toilet.

If Smith loses she is guaranteed to scurry away into whatever rathole she has...and thats fine.

We've had a lot of crazy bastards running this place...but a radio DJ?

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Locke

Frankly? I hope so.

There is nobody else in any leadership capacity that I wouldnt flush down a toilet.

If Smith loses she is guaranteed to scurry away into whatever rathole she has...and thats fine.

We've had a lot of crazy bastards running this place...but a radio DJ?

Even worse, FIRED radio talk show host is now Premier.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Locke

Frankly? I hope so.

There is nobody else in any leadership capacity that I wouldnt flush down a toilet.

If Smith loses she is guaranteed to scurry away into whatever rathole she has...and thats fine.

We've had a lot of crazy bastards running this place...but a radio DJ?

She was basically fired from radio, her most recent job was running a train car restaurant. I do not know how successful that was, but I suggest she go back to it. Please.

https://thenationaltelegraph.com/reg...d-restrictions

Hilariously, for all her rebel spirit they followed the covid restrictions.

[Dion]

nm

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But how do you handle the liabilities/existing holdings? Did you read the entire article I posted? It lays out some pretty big stumbling blocks.

Now, if we want to start from scratch, I guess that could maybe be done, but then we abandon a lot of money. The other provinces aren't just going to hand it over. We have zero leverage here.

I think this is another case of Smith being told a stupid idea, and her running with it without considering how the sausage gets made.

Well my comment was about provincial migration and not about the creation of the APP and moving from CPP to that. Those are two different issues.

In theory, people have their CPP until a cutoff date (Say January 1,2024 for simplicity). The pension funds and liabilities stay there. From that point on, Albertans contribute to APP, and they get their pension from there depending on what they’ve paid in. When they retire, the collect CPP and APP until ~45years from now when people only have APP in Alberta.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

We've had a lot of crazy bastards running this place...but a radio DJ?

John Caravella would do a better job.