[PGT] Flames lose 5-2 to the St Louis Boooos!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Hubredeau has spent so much time with players a lot better than Ruzicka with very little success. At some point the players are the issue.

Blowing the doors off is also a bit rich. He's had good production (with some percentages breaking his way), but he isn't a consistent threat at 5 on 5, and he disappears without notice in some games.

Yeah. Mang had 35 goals and has speed, Hubey had 85 assists or whatever, and we are looking at an AHL call up with 15 good-ish games as an answer?

It starts with the game plan unfortunately. And for linemates Mang makes more sense than Ruzicka

[Delthefunky]

Keep Sutter, keep Treliving, seasons likely a write-off but who knows. Come back next year with some guys who can hit the broad side of a barn.

[Goriders]

What a disaster this team is. Went to a movie and watched the PVR’d 3rd period.

I’d guess someone will be fired soon. There is something definitely wrong with the team. They have too many good players to be this bad.

It’s time to stop making excuses for them. They are horrible right now.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Vedder

People act like this is the simplest decision in the world. You lose a bunch of money with a bottom feeder following the Iginla era. You build up a roster that is finally competitive, and your young stars leave. Are you immediately reverting to the rebuild without trying to salvage a competitive roster?

Easiest take to make in the world with very little skin in the game.

Yeah I get it but there was some middle ground. They had to make the Tkachuk trade sure. But they didn't have to sign kadri and move monahan and a 1st. They didn't have to sign huberdeau and weegar to massive contracts before they played a game.
If they didn't instantly sign Huberdeau we would have had alot of flexibility to pivot if this season failed. Huberdeau also may have been hungrier for his next contract.

Overall I like the things Brad has done but he reactionarily dove headfirst into this plan destroying any potential off ramps in doing so and its blowing up in our faces.

Unfortunately, there will be lots of excuses and little changes. They will do lip service and say the games are close but too many little mistakes and people need to play better and chemistry takes time and they have a hard schedule and and and. Truth is team is old and locked up long term. They cant risk giving out potentially high picks. The only way out is hopping that it turns around internally.

[Goriders]

Or somebody is dumb enough to take our crappy players and their massive contracts from us.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Last year was what happens when every single player has a career year and is in a contract year with a fresh new coach and something to prove.

This year is what happens when every single player has a down year and has a long term contract with the same coach and a tired message.

It’s absurd to blame talent or the GM for a poorly constructed roster or mercenaries or any other ridiculous theory. We are down two forwards. Two. One of which who left because he only wants to wear sandals to the rink (and is basically the definition of a mercenary in it for the money) and yet our new guys are mercenaries and we don’t like them because they aren’t “homegrown”? Give me a break. We don’t like them because they aren’t performing.

And our poorly constructed roster is nearly identical to last year. Does anyone seriously think Johnny and Chucky on this team would make the other 20 guys play better? Lindy maybe because he’d be centering them. But their presence isn’t gonna make Marky stop the puck, or Mangi Coleman or Dube play better on their lines. And they sure as hell aren’t making Looch any less of a black hole.

Not to mention, thank god we did make the trade because without Weegs our defence would be ahl calibre right now.

I don’t think you’re remembering just how crucial the top line was to the success of the team. I think last season, I counted only 2 wins where one of three top line players didn’t register at least a point. That means the top line figured in the scoring for 48 out of the 50 wins last season. That’s how important 13 and 19 were to the team last year. It wasn’t just the consistency in production, it was also how badly they’d outscore the other team’s lines matched up against them, they basically scored at will, while barely giving up anything. That can be seen in their historically dominant and gaudy +/- totals.

Even just looking at Johnny Gaudeau’s splits from last season alone, you can see just see the influence he and his line had on the team’s record:


in 50 Wins: 32G, 61A, 93P, +75
in 21 Losses: 5G, 8A, 13P, -12
in 11 OT/SO L: 3G, 6A, 9P, +1


The numbers would indicate that if the top line was shut down or contained that night, the team probably lost. So to answer the question, YES, Gadureau and Tkachuk would make a huge difference to this team right now. This team is basically losing a lot of close games, so to have a dominant line that tips the scales so heavily in our favor would surely add quite a few extra wins to our record.

...and lastly, the homegrown thing is more about risk then anything. Paying for homegrown talent means you know said player is having success on your team, with your coaches, the culture and etc etc. The problem with going after guys from different teams via the trade route or free agency means increased risk; the risk that the player won’t be able to gel with teammates or fit into the culture or the system which we’ve seen plenty of times (i.e. Brouwer, Neal, Elliott, Raymond and etc). That’s the reason for the homegrown conversation, because it’s the proven to be the best way to win Cups.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I'm sure that Sutter changed his system, specially when they depending. Last year's team depended much better and they were very fast for transition with 13 and 19.
But this year they can't clear the puck and when they finally clear the puck and our D tries to make changes but Fs can hold the puck or loose it to other team creating odd man chance against. And this team visibly slower than last year.

Why would Sutter change his system after it won him 50 games last season and a division title?

Clearing the puck, holding on to pucks and giving up odd man rushes has everything to do with individual player’s abilities to read, react and make plays.

You’re right though, 13 and 19 were very fast in transition, but that’s because both players excel in transition especially Gaudreau who might have been one of the best players in the league in this area.

He always had the rare ability to comfortably slow down and control the pace of the rush and cut through the middle like very few others can. This is an unteachable skill, you either have it or you don’t and no one on this team comes close to even Tkachuk’s level let alone Gaudreau. I probably said it a million times on here that this fanbase took him for granted and would miss him if he was gone and I think it’s finally starting to show.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ it got Gaudreau 115 points playing on a regular line with Lindholm and Tkachuk

Huberdeau had 115 points while he was centered by Bennett and non elite other winger

Sutter has to figure out how he managed to get points out of one and not the other

[GullFoss]

Wow this thread lol

Sutter isn't likely stepping down. Treliving likely isn't getting fired. They'll likely make the playoffs in the divisional 2-3 seed, which was probably the internal expectations.

The team lacks chemistry as a whole, which is to be expected when your top two players that drive play end up leaving, it's going to take some time to regain flow.

Give it another 10-15 games.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Wow this thread lol

Sutter isn't likely stepping down. Treliving likely isn't getting fired. They'll likely make the playoffs in the divisional 2-3 seed, which was probably the internal expectations.

The team lacks chemistry as a whole, which is to be expected when your top two players that drive play end up leaving, it's going to take some time to regain flow.

Give it another 10-15 games.

Thanks for posting this-I was going to say something like this, but I didn't want to bother with all the negativity.

Our 2 top players (and Monahan) left, and were replaced. We now have key players in important positions who didn't play nearly as detailed a system as the one Sutter employs. It's going to take time. Tre did an excellent job turning a bleak situation into a positive, and Sutter ain't going nowhere-these kinda comments are embarrassing.

What's also embarrassing is how our fans whine about "perpetual mediocrity". Flames have the 7th best win% all-time in the NHL, so it could be worse. In the past 5 years, we've finished 1st in the Pacific twice, and one of those years, we were 2nd in the league-so again, could be worse. I already know what the argument against this will be, so Flame away. I'm done with this thread.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Surely they're just trying to, I dunno, showcase Lucic for a trade or something? Guy belongs in the press box, how is he getting this much ice time

You certainly don’t showcase him by playing him.

And for the record, he was 9th among forwards for ice time. Which is too much, but let’s not suggest he was getting 1st line time.

[WhiteTiger]

Well, this isn't what I wanted to see when I got up this morning. >.<

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Lindy is off by only like 5 points from where he would be with Johnny and Chucky too (PPG)

it's just strange to me that huberdeau, kadri and weegar are all giving such mediocre performances .. but that really is spanning the entire group so I think it comes down to a group/locker room issue of some kind

which is why most probably circle back to the coach

Lindy is on pace for 66 points and -11.

Last year he had 82 points and was +61.

While I don’t like plus/minus as a stat, it is showing that the Flames first line is a shadow of what they were last season.

[Jacks]

Lucic is on pace for 66 points and -11.

Last year he had 82 points and was +61.

While I don’t like plus/minus as a stat, it is showing that the Flames first line is a shadow of what they were last season.

Obvious typo but too funny not to quote.
Stupid bug, can't quote. 2022, you'd think this could be fixed.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by timbit

Phillips is probably the game changer. Amirite?

Lucic sure as #### is not. Worst player in the NHL, Milan Lucic.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by troutman

Nope - small market Canadian teams can’t be giving away firsts. None of these contracts will look good in a couple of years, and we ain’t a contender in the meantime.

The Calgary flames can. We have traded three firsts (and 3 seconds over the Treliving years in the same deals) for the ability to have had Hamonic, and still have Toffoli and Lucic.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Wow this thread lol

Sutter isn't likely stepping down. Treliving likely isn't getting fired. They'll likely make the playoffs in the divisional 2-3 seed, which was probably the internal expectations.

The team lacks chemistry as a whole, which is to be expected when your top two players that drive play end up leaving, it's going to take some time to regain flow.

Give it another 10-15 games.

They better turn it around quick then to get into second or third. First things first, taking into account win percentage, they are 6 points back of 4th for win percentage with two games in hand on that team. They are 4 points back of 3rd with no games in hand. Need to get to 4th before they can get to third. They are 4 points back of the 2nd place team but that team has 2 games in hand on the Flames.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Not sure why everyone is so focused on Lucic. Does everyone really think he is the reason this team is losing? Replace Lucic with who? Phillips? Pretty sure the team won’t magically start winning after that. The problems are much bigger than Lucic. It is with the top players, basically all of them. Dube is on one of his streaks but that will soon end. Kadri looks like he is floating. Huberdeau is trying to make passes everywhere through everyone. Shots from the slot were automatic for Lindholm last year, this year into the goalie. Toffoli has cooled off. Mangiapane feels like he is on the perimeter all the time. Coleman is good defensively but has given nothing offensively this year. The only over achievers offensively are Anderssson, Lewis and Ritchie. Markstrom has gotten better but I know I am still wondering what is going to happen when he starts, so I would imagine some of his teammates are too in the back of their head.

But yes lets focus on Lucic. Replacing him with Phillips or Pelletier or Zary is sure to change the season around. Unless we can replace him with McDavid the rest of the team is going to have to pick it up.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

Not sure why everyone is so focused on Lucic. Does everyone really think he is the reason this team is losing? Replace Lucic with who? Phillips? Pretty sure the team won’t magically start winning after that. The problems are much bigger than Lucic. It is with the top players, basically all of them. Dube is on one of his streaks but that will soon end. Kadri looks like he is floating. Huberdeau is trying to make passes everywhere through everyone. Shots from the slot were automatic for Lindholm last year, this year into the goalie. Toffoli has cooled off. Mangiapane feels like he is on the perimeter all the time. Coleman is good defensively but has given nothing offensively this year. The only over achievers offensively are Anderssson, Lewis and Ritchie. Markstrom has gotten better but I know I am still wondering what is going to happen when he starts, so I would imagine some of his teammates are too in the back of their head.

But yes lets focus on Lucic. Replacing him with Phillips or Pelletier or Zary is sure to change the season around. Unless we can replace him with McDavid the rest of the team is going to have to pick it up.

Lucic's presence does seem annoying. As he's the most high profile vet blocking a young player. That being said Lucic is the nuclear deterrent and best fighter in the league. He has a place on the team, but it should be a much smaller one.

You're right though. This team will not succeed unless the rest of the team starts playing a lot better. Backlund and maybe Andersson both look great, but everyone else is horribly inconsistent.

[Johnny Makarov]

Fire the effing pp coach and blow up PP1. 3 straight penalties in the 2nd including a brief 2 on 1 against the worst PK in the league and you put up that kyit effort? get lost.