[PGT] Flames lose in shootout again…4-3 to canucks

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Adding Weegar should have more than compensated for Kylington. Stone replacing Gudbranson shouldn’t be such a major drop-off, especially in terms of offense.

Tanev and Stone have missed a bunch of games with injury, forcing AHLers into the lineup. Kylington's absence has been felt in a big way.

Stone's point pace this season is actually higher than Gudbranson's either this year or last.

Weegar has only 7 points in 29 games. He should be around double that to match Kylington's points pace from last season.

[Kasi]

Lots of points from the D last year were because of secondary assists on the top line goals. See Hanafin’s assists for one. Kylington benefited too from this. Since our forward scoring is down so is our D which explains why Weegars scoring is down. He did get 3 points in the first 3 games but then his scoring died down like everyone else.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by chedder

Shouldn't a player of Huberdeau's stature be able to figure out that he's playing with a right hand shot winger and adjust?

Takes time cause now his passes need to travel further to get to a righty due to him playing on the left side.

Ideally when Sutter gives him more leeway, once in the o-zone he should get to his off-wing which would not only require a shorter pass to a teammate but also a great chance for a righty to one time it.

We always talk about goalies playing their angles correctly but hardly about the forwards.

I believe that wingers should be playing their off wings all the time due to pass and reception angles.

So many benefits even in the D zone and bigger wing span in neutral zone.

Anyways that is for another discussion!

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Lots of points from the D last year were because of secondary assists on the top line goals. See Hanafin’s assists for one. Kylington benefited too from this. Since our forward scoring is down so is our D which explains why Weegars scoring is down. He did get 3 points in the first 3 games but then his scoring died down like everyone else.

Last season P/G (minimum 20GP)

Andersson .61
Hanifin .59
Kylington .42
Tanev .34
Zadorov .30
Gudbranson .22

This season P/G (minimum 20GP)

Andersson .67
Hanifin .45
Stone .35
Weegar .24
Tanev .21
Zadorov .20

So yes there is a noticable team drop off, not just any one player. However, Andersson has actually managed to increase his production.

I'd argue Kylington's absence, compounded with injuries to Tanev and Stone, have put increased pressure on everyone else to perform and made things harder overall. Kylly was a fast skater and could really move the puck. The team misses that.

[Kasi]

Anderson is well still getting PP1 and tbh he’s been playing a bit loose to try and kickstart the offence. I do appreciate the effort but some of his pinches have come back the other way. I agree Kylington is missed but I don’t think having him here magically fixes the offence. Main thing it does is put Stone on the bench which would be good. And yeah ofc when players like Tanev have been hurt it really shows. I think that is where the value really lies in keeping those players out of the lineup.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Kasi

I don’t think having him here magically fixes the offence.

Of course it wouldn't. But it would help the situation a significant amount.

Obviously when you lose two 100+ point guys who played incredibly well together, you're going to see a drop off in your team's offensive production the following year. No surprise there. The belief was that this team could, however, be a better overall team than last year. Less scoring than before, but also one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league at checking/defending and keeping the puck out of the net. Things haven't exactly gone that way, and Kylington's absence is a part of the reason why.

That said, there's still 52 games to go and things should get better from here as the gelling process continues.

[Backstop]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

HOVART. Lolz.

If theres a joke or a dig in spelling it Hovart I dont get it. The alternative though, did he personalize a jersey and absolutely tank on spelling the dudes name? Is it like Kipperguys Bucklund jersey, order Backlund from fanatics receive Bucklund? Is this dudes name Hovart?

[jroc]

Bo Horvat is the captain of the Canucks.
Not Bo Hovart.

That's the lulz

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Flames have to play .615 hockey to make the playoffs.

They are at 32 points. To make the playoffs the threshold is 95/96. Flames need to make up 63/64 points in the remaining schedule. That’s 52 games to make 64 points. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen with this group? Time will tell. I’m losing faith as I don’t see synergy or growth.

The current 8th best playoff team in the west by points percentage is LA at .561.

That's a 92 point pace.

Calgary needs to go .577 to be tied with the Kings.

The West isn't on that 96 point pace this year through the first 40% of the season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Lots of points from the D last year were because of secondary assists on the top line goals. See Hanafin’s assists for one. Kylington benefited too from this. Since our forward scoring is down so is our D which explains why Weegars scoring is down. He did get 3 points in the first 3 games but then his scoring died down like everyone else.

Not sure this is all that fair.

Defensemen get assists by moving the puck to forwards on every single team.

High scoring teams have defensemen with more assists and with similar splits of 2nd assists.

Calgary was 5th in 2nd Assists / Total assists, but also 10th in the league for primary assists from the blueline.

Hanifin and Kylington exceeded the NHL average in 2nd/Total assists, the rest of the team was around average, with Andersson being way higher in 1st assists / Total.

Nothing to see here at all.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Logged in to thank. Spot on. It's difficult being a die hard of this team. Glory and generational talent isn't something I've ever seen from this team. Maybe one day, hopefully before I die.

They're in the same boat as the Wild. Best they can do is some star players now and then, never any superstar or generational. Always winning enough to guarantee a mid-round first pick, but never any real success. After watching 20 years of this I'm done, the only game I've watched since October was the Columbus game just to see Gaudreau, but I turned that off after the first period. If this franchise ever gets serious about building a proper team through the draft first then I might get interested again, but I've seen this rerun too many times now

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Adding Weegar should have more than compensated for Kylington. Stone replacing Gudbranson shouldn’t be such a major drop-off, especially in terms of offense.

I agree that these things should be true. But chemistry, and situational play, matter.

Kylington really helped the transitional game last year, and would help it now.

More important, I believe, is his impact on the pairings. If he were here, we'd have:

Kylington - Tanev
Zadorov - Weegar

We know the first pair is awesome, and we have seen small samples of the second pair being really good too. However, we currently have:

Weegar - Tanev
Zadorov - Stone

The first pair just doesn't seem to be working, for whatever reason. And the second pair is a bit of a tire fire.

I am in the camp that believes that the absence of Kylington is having a huge impact (though I believe that it would help if they put Zad-Weegar back together, and let Tanev shelter whoever is in as #6)

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I don't know what's happening with Huberdeau, he's known to be an elite passer but in our system it seems like the puck is a hot potato when he receives it and he makes a bad split second decision pass over and over again - maybe its due to chemistry and the receiving players just aren't going to where he intends to pass them but he still looks like he's pressured and makes bad passes leading to those giveaways all the time.

I don't know if it's his fault or he only works if he's playing with high-hockey IQ players like Wayne Gretzky who knows to go where the puck is going to go. Judging by Duclair and Bennett, I can't say this is the case.

I'm starting to wonder if it's less so about the teammates and more so about the style of games he's playing in. After all, he didn't just play with Bennett and Duclair his entire career, he's had success with other players.

Everyone who plays Sutter and the Flames knows it's going to be a close, chess match of a game, so they go in playing a tight checking style themselves which is less than ideal for Huberdeau because from what I've seen so far, he doesn't have the best skating, footwork or a ton of poise with the puck and that's why I think we've seen a lot of rushed plays, turnovers and hot potato like you said. He needs more time and space, but that's not a luxury you're afforded in tight checking games.

Just looking at some of his past highlights, you can see that he has a lot of success springing teammates for breakaways, scoring on odd man rushes and generally playing a wide open, rope a dope brand of hockey. But that's not how Flames games are played these days, it's not pond hockey. It's a tough slog through the neutral zone, lot of dump and chase for both sides, lot of checking and breakaways/odd man rushes are at a premium.

So long story short, maybe Huberdeau eventually figures it out here maybe he never does. But I think Jonathan is one of those types of players who have a clear benefit playing a certain style of play. Sort of like those big power forwards who struggle to produce in the regular season but suddenly go hulk during the playoffs.

[Naitix]

Does anyone know where to check Huberdeaus linemates before Bennett? I do wonder who he played with in his other season and how successful they were.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Naitix

Does anyone know where to check Huberdeaus linemates before Bennett? I do wonder who he played with in his other season and how successful they were.

Probably safe to assume that some combination of Hoffman, Dadanov and/or Trocheck ended up on his line over the years.