[PGT] Flames lose in shootout again…4-3 to canucks

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by Psytic

He needs a system with speed like Quenneville or Hartley and players to support it. Its never going to work in a Sutter system for him imo.

I see what you're saying, but Sutter's system is supposed to be a fast system, no? Or at least, that's what it looked like last season and Sutter has stated that himself. That's one of my main frustrations this year.. with the loss of slower guys like Tkachuk/Gudbranson and replacement of Huberdeau/Kadri/Weegar, I thought for sure that this team would look noticeably faster this year but they look considerably slower. Combine the lack of speed with shots from the outside and less High-Danger chances and we look like a completely different team.

We're still close to a playoff spot and there's plenty of time left but I tend to agree with those who are unsure whether adding a player is the right move to help this time sneak into a playoff spot. Weird season so far, but I'm holding out hope that after the Christmas break we see a veteran team start to put it together and find their identity. I just hope management don't entertain trading assets and draft capital until this team proves what they are/aren't this season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

You continue to absolve Flames management of blame. I get we don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes, but there exists a pattern of Treliving handing out albatross contracts to older players in this league.

Actually his RFA contracts have been some of his best work.

I think we were all worried about the contract length and age ... I was worried about Gaudreau getting the same contract.

But the biggest contract in team history isn't a whim signing by the GM, the owner is all over it ... which we actually know based on the blow by blow Gaudreau final days.

Some of his free agent signings have been terrible.
He's spent too many picks banking on a core that I didn't particularly like.

But the Huberdeau (and Weegar) contracts have ownership written all over it.

[FanIn80]

Honestly, it's gotten to the point where I don't even get excited for a Flames game anymore. I don't even check the schedule to find out when they're playing next or what games they have coming up. I haven't even looked at the standings in over a month.

I've been a fan for over 40 years, and this is one of the most disappointing iterations I've seen yet. When 13 bailed and 19 told us he wasn't re-signing, we could have sat back and said, "well this is the perfect year to blow everything up for a pile of draft picks." Instead, we stayed fixated on this notion that we were somehow a "contender missing a couple pieces." Fast forward to today and here we are paying 6M for a backup, 6M for perhaps our 3rd or 4th best defenceman, 10M for a second-line complimentary winger and 12M for two third-line centers.

We could have gone into this upcoming offseason with a pile of picks plus a pile of cap space (with even more coming off the books July 1st)... but nope. We do things the Flames' way here. Play like ass until we're mathematically eliminated, and then, in a blatant fit of stubbornness, go on a 7 game winning streak to close out the season to ensure we're drafting right in the middle of the pack.

Not to mention, closing out the season on a winning streak makes it much easier to sell the fanbase on not blowing it up...

40 friggin years, and only three of them have been worth anything.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I think they should just put back together the Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli line. They were good together and could score 5v5

[Toonage]

We talk about Huberdeau and the guys he played with last year in Florida. A centre who doesn't use his teammates well (Bennett) and a speedy somewhat one dimensional winger. a LHS playing the RW (Duclair)

Seems the path to success for Huberdeau if its down to teammates is Kadri & Dube

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I agree, but the lack of results to this point create an interesting question of how the Flames handle it.

Agreed. Though I still think it's too early. The more time/data though we have the more it suggests that maybe it's the wrong combo of players.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Is this an organization that can afford to trade more futures to add another piece to a group that is more than one piece away from contending?

I hope not.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Do they do nothing and hope the ship rights itself?

As frustrating as it is - this is probably the best thing to do. Major changes to team make-up happens more in the off-season

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Or if the ship doesn't write itself and they draft 14th overall again - do they really just do the same thing next year?

I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I have to think at some point, if things aren't going as they hoped, they throw in the towel.

I'm hoping whenever they do, they don't wait too long like they did with Iginla.

Agreed but this franchise has a history that cuts across several GMs. I don't think ownership will authorize a re-build or selling off of veterans.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Toonage

We talk about Huberdeau and the guys he played with last year in Florida. A centre who doesn't use his teammates well (Bennett) and a speedy somewhat one dimensional winger. a LHS playing the RW (Duclair)

Seems the path to success for Huberdeau if its down to teammates is Kadri & Dube

Yeah I wonder if that might work. I also thought at first that Huberdeau/Kadri/Mangiapane might be good, since Mangiapane has a pretty good shot so you'd think that would be a natural pairing with Huberdeau's passing abilities - but I looked it up and apparently that line combination had horrible metrics for the couple games that they tried it.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Honestly, it's gotten to the point where I don't even get excited for a Flames game anymore. I don't even check the schedule to find out when they're playing next or what games they have coming up. I haven't even looked at the standings in over a month.

I've been a fan for over 40 years, and this is one of the most disappointing iterations I've seen yet. When 13 bailed and 19 told us he wasn't re-signing, we could have sat back and said, "well this is the perfect year to blow everything up for a pile of draft picks." Instead, we stayed fixated on this notion that we were somehow a "contender missing a couple pieces." Fast forward to today and here we are paying 6M for a backup, 6M for perhaps our 3rd or 4th best defenceman, 10M for a second-line complimentary winger and 12M for two third-line centers.

We could have gone into this upcoming offseason with a pile of picks plus a pile of cap space (with even more coming off the books July 1st)... but nope. We do things the Flames' way here. Play like ass until we're mathematically eliminated, and then, in a blatant fit of stubbornness, go on a 7 game winning streak to close out the season to ensure we're drafting right in the middle of the pack.

Not to mention, closing out the season on a winning streak makes it much easier to sell the fanbase on not blowing it up...

40 friggin years, and only three of them have been worth anything.

Yup. It was a prime opportunity to reset after losing your two best players in the same offseason and going into one of the strongest drafts in recent memories. Now we're over committed to a bunch of mercenary vets on their sun set contracts. Really unenjoyable product.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I think they should just put back together the Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli line. They were good together and could score 5v5

I want to try:

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Zohorna-Phillips
Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube
Coleman-Backlund-Lewis/Lucic/Ritchie

[Young Guns]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I want to try:

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Zohorna-Phillips
Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube
Coleman-Backlund-Lewis/Lucic/Ritchie

Close to what id like

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Kadri-Dube
Mangiapane-Backlund-Phillips
Coleman-Zohorna-Lewis/Lucic/Ritchie

Just not sure about the 3rd line and its size!

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Tough game. Down two early again with Markstrom in net. Not good.

I do find the discussion about negativity funny. I definitely don't find there to be nearly as much overwhelming positivity when things are good but when the team loses 3 straight oh boy does the negativity get jacked up to eleven. It honestly makes the forums almost unreadable when it's always the same posters typing the same negative things over and over and over in every thread. No one is happy they are losing right now but typing the same negative thing out ten times a day isn't going to change that.

It’s the Flames fan syndrome. Complain about world class players not being able to defeat other world class players at the highest level, forgetting that literally every other franchise has difficulty getting it done with top end players like MacKinnon, Ovechkin, etc, and don’t just cut bait with them just as they start to get dominant, and then complain that the team is boring and lacks skill after said world class players are gone and deemed “not winners”.

You know what wins hockey games? You know what makes it fun to watch? Good hockey players. We need to learn to enjoy what we have when we have it. Maybe then players would want to stick.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Toonage

We talk about Huberdeau and the guys he played with last year in Florida. A centre who doesn't use his teammates well (Bennett) and a speedy somewhat one dimensional winger. a LHS playing the RW (Duclair)

Seems the path to success for Huberdeau if its down to teammates is Kadri & Dube

I don't think the opinion that Kadri doesn't use is line mates is a fair one. Look at Kadri setting up Mang last night - and also that he has 11 goals and 11 assists. It's more of an issue when his line mates are playing so bad that Kadri is effectively on the ice alone. Same thing happened to Bennett during the Brouwer/Jankowski era.

Fans: "Don't pass Huby! SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT!"

Also Fans: "God, Kadri shoots too much. He doesn't make use of his line mates"

...that being said, yeah - Huby - Kadri - Dube might be pretty good

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I want to try:

Ruzicka-Lindholm-Toffoli
Huberdeau-Zohorna-Phillips
Mangiapane-Kadri-Dube
Coleman-Backlund-Lewis/Lucic/Ritchie

Pairing huby with two guys with a combined 32 NHL games will definitely fix him right uo.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Kadri doesn't use his teammates well? More like when his teammates are playing like trash, the whole line looks bad. Ditto with Bennett.

...that being said, yeah - Huby - Kadri - Dube might be pretty good

Thats the argument I see on this board, and the complaints levied against Bennett when he was here. Just trying to draw comparisons though to map out what might be successful for Huberdeau. Your final conlcusion is where I ended up so our paths ultimately met.

[sonq]

Wow. The doomsday atmosphere here is quite something. Why ya'll watching the Flames or write here if you think they're done for the season, the century, lifetime? Geez, we must be the most dramatic fanbase in the whole league

[Huntingwhale]

I blame my Mom for this loss. For whatever reason she decided to "live" post updates to the extended family Whatsupp chat since she was at the game with my Dad and cousin. Probably she was oblivious to the fact that there was a 30 seconds delay against the stream we were watching, so it was annoying knowing what was happening about 30 seconds before it happened. Had to mute the chat eventually. She got quite a ribbing this morning for jinxing it.

Thanks Mom

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I blame my Mom for this loss. For whatever reason she decided to "live" post updates to the extended family Whatsupp chat since she was at the game with my Dad and cousin. Probably she was oblivious to the fact that there was a 30 seconds delay against the stream we were watching, so it was annoying knowing what was happening about 30 seconds before it happened. Had to mute the chat eventually. She got quite a ribbing this morning for jinxing it.

Thanks Mom

Posting things 30 seconds before everyone else sees it. Is your Mom Reggie Dunlop?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I see what you're saying, but Sutter's system is supposed to be a fast system, no? Or at least, that's what it looked like last season and Sutter has stated that himself. That's one of my main frustrations this year.. with the loss of slower guys like Tkachuk/Gudbranson and replacement of Huberdeau/Kadri/Weegar, I thought for sure that this team would look noticeably faster this year but they look considerably slower. Combine the lack of speed with shots from the outside and less High-Danger chances and we look like a completely different team.

We're still close to a playoff spot and there's plenty of time left but I tend to agree with those who are unsure whether adding a player is the right move to help this time sneak into a playoff spot. Weird season so far, but I'm holding out hope that after the Christmas break we see a veteran team start to put it together and find their identity. I just hope management don't entertain trading assets and draft capital until this team proves what they are/aren't this season.

I feel like Sutters system tries to establish the cycle though and Johnny used to button hook and look for open players and trailers. Huberdeau is more of an off the rush guy. He’s not as effective when the opposing team is already setup as Johnny was. If there’s some sort of lateral change of scenery deals for a better stylistic fit I would be all for it. Not giving up picks or futures.

[HighLifeMan]

Huberdeau - Backlund - Mangiapane really needs to be a thing.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I would try

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Dube - Kadri - Phillips
Coleman - Backlund - Toffoli
Lewis - Zohorna - Ritchie

Hanifin - Weegar
Zadorov - Andersson
Mackey - Stone(Tanev when he is back)

If Phillips doesn't work I would put Toffoli in his spot.