[PGT] Flames lose in shootout again…4-3 to canucks

[Coach]

Spin move!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

if I can't complain about Treliving signing players to inflated contracts last off-season when he has literally handed out the worst contract in off-seasons prior (Neal, Brouwer) without you getting upset then I really don't know what to do

See this is where your bias against Treliving is showing.

There are always worse contracts being handed out. Karlsson, Bobrovsky, Skinner, OEL, Nurse etc. There are also big buyouts that happen pretty frequently around the league too. Treliving makes errors like any GM, but he tries to pivot and work those errors to his advantage when he can and where the market will allow.

You clearly think he's the worst GM in the league, but he's not even close to the worst. Is he the best? Perhaps not, but as with everything else with this team, the criticism is extreme without any context of what other teams do or what problems they have. No team is perfectly run, but I suspect you expect perfection and nothing less.

It's not a reasonable position to have.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by madmike

It is depressing, but with all the awful contracts they have now, the Flames should finally be able to tank successfully. In the past ownership and management have avoided tanks, but with the current roster I don’t see them having much choice. They’re going to bottom out like the Sharks, hamstrung by horrible, untradeable, long-term deals.

I don't know that I'm actually that concerned about the salary cap going forward. I think the salary cap's about to shoot up, and the Flames will be able to make it work. For me, the concern is that the current top players are old and declining, and the Flames don't have blue-chip prospects, so the team just doesn't have much hope for the future. I think a lot of this has to do with trading too many draft picks, top, young players leaving, and basically being forced to build the top end of the team a little too much by trading for older players and free agency. Its not that the Flames haven't drafted any of their players, but I think the top end of the roster skews too much towards older players.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

See this is where your bias against Treliving is showing.

There are always worse contracts being handed out. Karlsson, Bobrovsky, Skinner, OEL, Nurse etc. There are also big buyouts that happen pretty frequently around the league too. Treliving makes errors like any GM, but he tries to pivot and work those errors to his advantage when he can and where the market will allow.

You clearly think he's the worst GM in the league, but he's not even close to the worst. Is he the best? Perhaps not, but as with everything else with this team, the criticism is extreme without any context of what other teams do or what problems they have. No team is perfectly run, but I suspect you expect perfection and nothing less.

It's not a reasonable position to have.

Huh? I said he handed out the worst contracts in the 2016 and 2018 off-seasons. You think I said he's the worst GM in the league??

Those are two completely different statements??????

[ricardodw]

What would be the possible outcomes if the Flames went into this year with Huberdeau not signed?

1) He would be playing up to the level that he was last year and the Flames would be on top of the bubble in the standings. They would be panicking to sign him .. they would have to pay him in the Marner/Stone/Barkov/Gaudreau/Tkachuk range (which they already have done)

2) What we see is his best and he is entering his declining years. His market as a UFA would be at best the Kadri 7M x7 range and the Flames would have an extra 3.5M and not have him locked in at 10.5 for his 37 year old season. Or he would be another team's big gamble.

At least with Kadri there is a history of him being a playoff warrior.

[Flamesfan05]

If Huberdeau doesn’t get going and carry the team like a super star (at least Johnny Gaudreau level) the team is screwed.

Rest of team are mediocre. So are the prospects

[Nelson]

I also have to say that I don't really blame Brad Treliving all that much for the current situation, as depressing as I find it. He's dealt with some really difficult obstacles, and I think he's done his very best. I think he's a good GM, even though there are certain things that he does that I dislike, primarily trading too many draft picks.

[Hot_Flatus]

This is the first time I've really and fully been concerned about him - that game was an absolute dumpster fire from the Flames top forward. Not sure if the fancy stats paint a better picture or not, but watching the game last night and how badly Huberdeau struggled definitely sets off some serious alarm bells.

Huberdeau: -2, 1SH, 1Hit, 4GVA, 4:31PP TOI

Points and goals aside, your elite forward cannot be that out of sorts at this point of the season. I'm not sure where you go from here because you've already tried other line combos, that haven't really worked either. Chalk it up as a brutal game and move on, but I'm not seeing a lot of signs that he's going to flip the switch suddenly in the next 10 games and start dominating. If he doesn't bounce back with a big effort next game it will say a lot.

[Kasi]

Yeah I think there is an argument that you really didn’t need to extend him then (or Sutter either) and just see how things worked out. But I imagine after the Gaudreau and Tkachuk situation they were desperate to repair the image of the team/city. So that’s understandable but unfortunate.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I also have to say that I don't really blame Brad Treliving all that much for the current situation, as depressing as I find it. He's dealt with some really difficult obstacles, and I think he's done his very best. I think he's a good GM, even though there are certain things that he does that I dislike, primarily trading too many draft picks.

I'm not his biggest fan of the GM at all, but he had to sign the contracts he did in the summer. There was no way around it. The real argument would be whether or not the team went after the right players to begin with, but that's not something that can be unpacked just a few months into a deal like this.

[D as in David]

In the alternate reality where Huberdeau is not signed to an extension, I'm imagining a team picks him up for a bargain based on his play with the Flames and then goes on to light it up with the new team.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by D as in David

In the alternate reality where Huberdeau is not signed to an extension, I'm imagining a team picks him up for a bargain based on his play with the Flames and then goes on to light it up with the new team.

I think that's still preferable to what's happening now.

[sa226]

Didn't Mangiapane have 20 goals this time last year? With all the focus on the top line, Mangiapane and his 7 goals is not really living up to his fancy new contract.

Ruzicka has more point than the bread man.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by AC

Lindholm: 2/13
Toffoli: 1/15
Mangi: 0/4

Not great options either, lol.

Dube was 1/1 before this attempt though.
Backlund: 1/11

Yeah I mean the one positive would be Sutter realizes that you've got to try something else instead of expecting the usual suspects to get it done.

[Flamesfan05]

Mangi has scored around this pace after that hot start

He is part of the problem but not really unexpected

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This is the first time I've really and fully been concerned about him - that game was an absolute dumpster fire from the Flames top forward. Not sure if the fancy stats paint a better picture or not, but watching the game last night and how badly Huberdeau struggled definitely sets off some serious alarm bells.

Huberdeau: -2, 1SH, 1Hit, 4GVA, 4:31PP TOI

Points and goals aside, your elite forward cannot be that out of sorts at this point of the season. I'm not sure where you go from here because you've already tried other line combos, that haven't really worked either. Chalk it up as a brutal game and move on, but I'm not seeing a lot of signs that he's going to flip the switch suddenly in the next 10 games and start dominating. If he doesn't bounce back with a big effort next game it will say a lot.

Yeah Huberd'oh seems to be telegraphing his passes.. or his opponents know exactly what he's doing right now. It's kind of insane how the 'best passer in the league' is getting picked off so much. As Gulutzan once said.. 'sometimes you gotta punt'. Hate to say it but those words are pretty true with this guy. He's forcing things

[dustygoon]

Dube is what he is. 3rd liner, good skater, utility guy and chips in offensively on occasion. But in no way does he exhibit offensive intelligence. I don't get the decision to put him in the top three for a shootout.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I would tell my boss that's not the right direction for this team. If that costs me my job, so be it, but I'm not going to find another after signing Kadri to 7x7 and Huberdeau to 10.5x8.

Treliving would easily get another shot. Flames weren’t going to rebuild and the only way Weegar and Huberdeau were going to get traded is they refused to sign. Carolina or St Louis weren’t offering a great younger player and Treliving turned it down. If you want a full tear down rebuild that is done purposefully you will need a new team to follow.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Treliving would easily get another shot. Flames weren’t going to rebuild and the only way Weegar and Huberdeau were going to get traded is they refused to sign. Carolina or St Louis weren’t offering a great younger player and Treliving turned it down. If you want a full tear down rebuild that is done purposefully you will need a new team to follow.

That is not how fandom typically works but I will certainly be giving the Flames and Murray Edwards less and less of my money until they decide they actually want to compete for a Stanley Cup

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm glad you're in charge of my annual review.

This feels like the state of commodity markets is on me, and the Ukrainian invasion may somehow be my fault.

Lol I trade wheat and the market was such a mess between the war and drought last year and now we are seeing demand destruction due to high prices and cheaper origins. Tough market right now. Thankfully my boss understands the macro and systemic issues. His bosses are taking a bit of extra time this year.