[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Well, we won't even get to find out now.
Had he gone to NJ or something, we may see that play out eventually but he's not going anywhere near the playoffs for a while now anyway.

Which he seems quite content with...nuff said. Huberdeau may end up not being that guy, but Johnny definitely wasn't either.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Presidents trophy and 2nd round loss to Tampa is a pretty high bar...likely no playoffs this season

Both teams have almost the same odds to make the playoffs at this point.

https://www.moneypuck.com/predictions.htm

The Flames are slightly higher (57.9% vs. 55.3%), but they have Florida with slightly higher odds to actually win a round if they do make it.

I don't see why early prime 24 year old Tkachuk gets slammed while late prime 29 year old Huberdeau has had the same issues and it is played off like no big deal. If I had to pick one that will eventually become a playoff performer, I would go with the younger player who is just entering his prime years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Both teams have almost the same odds to make the playoffs at this point.

https://www.moneypuck.com/predictions.htm

The Flames are slightly higher (57.9% vs. 55.3%), but they have Florida with slightly higher odds to actually win a round if they do make it.

I don't see why early prime 24 year old Tkachuk gets slammed while late prime 29 year old Huberdeau has had the same issues and it is played off like no big deal. If I had to pick one that will eventually become a playoff performer, I would go with the younger player who is just entering his prime years.

Huberdeau has had far tougher playoff matchups for one...How would Calgary have done facing Tampa every year?

Also those odds are a joke when you look at remaining schedules and the division the teams play in.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That actually thrills me about Huberdeau. So he basically started reinventing himself into Sutter's system at the start of the season to a huge detriment of his point production (a process that put both Tkachuk and Gaudreau down to 60-70 point players for FULL seasons) AND has put himself into elite defensive forward company WHILE producing at a point per game lately now that he's getting better at it?

Yeah, I'll take that to the bank.

If that's whats happening then I'm all over it.

I've been impatient with him and spoke out about it lately, but if he's going to start scoring while being much improved on the defensive side of the game then I'm a happy camper.

[JohnnyB]

The Flames being more likely to make the playoffs because they're in a division with much worse teams is pretty unexciting. Doesn't suggest the Flames are the better team either. The fact that it's even being used to support their case reflects the disappointment of this season so far.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

The Flames being more likely to make the playoffs because they're in a division with much worse teams is pretty unexciting. Doesn't suggest the Flames are the better team either. The fact that it's even being used to support their case reflects the disappointment of this season so far.

The Flames haven't yet played any of the bad teams in their division. Florida has. That's a substantial difference.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The Flames haven't yet played any of the bad teams in their division. Florida has. That's a substantial difference.

What if the other teams think we're the bad team in the division?

[Kasi]

Are we the baddies? Sorry just saw that vid lately in one of the other forums. Classic and applies to all sorts of things.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

What if the other teams think we're the bad team in the division?

Worse than Anaheim?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Huberdeau has had far tougher playoff matchups for one...How would Calgary have done facing Tampa every year?

Also those odds are a joke when you look at remaining schedules and the division the teams play in.

In 2021-2022, he had 3 points in 6 games in the first round against the 8th place Caps, then 2 points in 4 games against the Lightning, so similar production against both teams.

In 2020-2021, he had 10 points in 6 games, so no complaints in production. Team lost in the 1st round to Tampa.

In 2019-2020, he had 3 points in 4 games. Team lost in the qualifying round to the Islanders.

In 2015-2016, he had 3 points in 6 games. The divisional first place Panthers lost to the wild card Islanders in the first round.

Sure, Tampa had their number twice, but so did the Islanders.

Given age, expectations, and competition, I think Huberdeau and Tkachuk have both been under performers in the playoffs overall in their careers. In Tkachuk's defense, it is kind of dumb to expect a player in his early 20s to carry a team. Last year was the only year I would have expected him to take the lead, and he did have 10 points in 12 games.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Both teams have almost the same odds to make the playoffs at this point.

https://www.moneypuck.com/predictions.htm

The Flames are slightly higher (57.9% vs. 55.3%), but they have Florida with slightly higher odds to actually win a round if they do make it.

I don't see why early prime 24 year old Tkachuk gets slammed while late prime 29 year old Huberdeau has had the same issues and it is played off like no big deal. If I had to pick one that will eventually become a playoff performer, I would go with the younger player who is just entering his prime years.

I'm not a fan of Moneypuck. Despite the name, their odds don't actually drive gambling action from what I can tell. For example, their odds of making playoffs:

Seattle: 87.9%
Colorado: 78.3%

That's not how I would bet it.

Seems they just look at results to date and SOS the rest of the way without taking into account how good the teams actually are.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Both teams have almost the same odds to make the playoffs at this point.

https://www.moneypuck.com/predictions.htm

The Flames are slightly higher (57.9% vs. 55.3%), but they have Florida with slightly higher odds to actually win a round if they do make it.

I don't see why early prime 24 year old Tkachuk gets slammed while late prime 29 year old Huberdeau has had the same issues and it is played off like no big deal. If I had to pick one that will eventually become a playoff performer, I would go with the younger player who is just entering his prime years.

I think the playoff struggles of both guys are overblown.

Tkachuk has played 27 playoff games over four years and just turned 25 - Iggy had one playoff game under his belt at that age. I’m sure Matthew’s day in the sun is coming.

Huberdeau only made the playoffs 4 times as a Panther, and in the last three trips, he’s been 0.75 PPG, 0.83 PPG and 0.5 PPG.

For all the #### Huberdeau gets over that, his 2 points against Tampa led the team. Barkov had one assist. Ditto Giroux. One goal for Reinhart. 0 points for Bennett, Lundell, Weegar and Ekblad.

I dunno, I just wouldn’t be in a rush to blame Jonathan Huberdeau for being in on 66% of their goals in a series where the team only scored three times.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I think the playoff struggles of both guys are overblown.

Tkachuk has played 27 playoff games over four years and just turned 25 - Iggy had one playoff game under his belt at that age. I’m sure Matthew’s day in the sun is coming.

Huberdeau only made the playoffs 4 times as a Panther, and in the last three trips, he’s been 0.75 PPG, 0.83 PPG and 0.5 PPG.

For all the #### Huberdeau gets over that, his 2 points against Tampa led the team. Barkov had one assist. Ditto Giroux. One goal for Reinhart. 0 points for Bennett, Lundell, Weegar and Ekblad.

I dunno, I just wouldn’t be in a rush to blame Jonathan Huberdeau for being in on 66% of their goals in a series where the team only scored three times.

This is all true, I just don't think it's fair to criticize Tkachuk while Huberdeau is pretty much in the same boat.

It total, the sample sizes are just too small to draw conclusions. We also don't know what kinds of injuries players were playing with. Didn't Tkachuk have like a broken hand or something while he was playing? Huberdeau could have been going through the same thing.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This is all true, I just don't think it's fair to criticize Tkachuk while Huberdeau is pretty much in the same boat.

It total, the sample sizes are just too small to draw conclusions. We also don't know what kinds of injuries players were playing with. Didn't Tkachuk have like a broken hand or something while he was playing? Huberdeau could have been going through the same thing.

Plus, this #### is hard. Going against the 2x champs is the hardest.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

What if the other teams think we're the bad team in the division?

The team with one regulation win? Calgary had 2 Oct 15th

[AT77]

Just another friendly reminder that Tkachuk > Huberdeau + Weeger

But this deal was a home run, absolute fleece job by Tre, right? Lol, now we’re handicapped for the foreseeable future with those contract extensions. Same old Flames, forever mediocre, sigh.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by AT77

Just another friendly reminder that Tkachuk > Huberdeau + Weeger

But this deal was a home run, absolute fleece job by Tre, right? Lol, now we’re handicapped for the foreseeable future with those contract extensions. Same old Flames, forever mediocre, sigh.

The deal was good; Trel picked up good assets. The extensions were bad; should've flipped the assets and started a rebuild. Now he handcuffed the team for the long haul.

[AT77]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

The deal was good; Trel picked up good assets. The extensions were bad; should've flipped the assets and started a rebuild. Now he handcuffed the team for the long haul.

Absolutely this. Those assets in terms of picks and prospects would have drastically sped up our rebuild.

[Flamesfan05]

The incompetent of Flames pro scouting is in full display on this deal

[Enoch Root]

It is so easy in hind sight to say they should have rebuilt when Gaudreau and Tkachuk walked, and I know a lot of fans clamored for that. But that was never going to happen and simply wasn't an option - not because ownership is against it, but because the core of the (remaining) team was way too young for a rebuild.

Andersson 26
Hanifin 25
Tanev 32
Kylington 25
Zadorov 27

Lindholm 28
Mangiapane 26
Dube 24
Backlund 33
Toffoli 30

Markstrom 32
Vladar 25

No team is going to throw in the towel on that group of players, at those ages. Especially when the opportunity to acquire Huberdeau, Weegar and Kadri to restock that core presented itself.

This wasn't a 'ownership refuses to rebuild' situation, it was the sensible and correct response to where the team was, at the time.

If it doesn't work, so be it. But it had to be tried.

And frankly, by bringing in the older players, they have actually accelerated the timeline for a rebuild, because now the team is older than average, and is very much in win now mode. So if they can't find success over then next couple years, switching gears to a full rebuild is actually a much easier decision.