[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

You know, the Flames are currently in 9th place, and their record was identical to Florida's until last night.

Flames are FAR more likely to be a playoff team based on the schedule remaining

Panthers also chose to do this with their presidents trophy winning team.

I think the main point here is that the Flames are expected to play a system not run and gun. Easier to put up points playing run and gun...harder to win long term. Comparing only points to say who is better is short sighted.

Huberdeau having top 3 defensive metrics for a forward after two months of Sutter is a good sign.

[FlamesAddiction]

I am curious what Tkachuk's defensive metrics were last season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I am curious what Tkachuk's defensive metrics were last season.

He was the highest rated player on the line I believe had higher metrics than Lindholm.

Didn't match the eye test, especially that play he developed mid season standing at the defensive blueline and throwing blind cross ice passes that usually got picked off.

[Saqe]

Never thought I'd see the day Huberdeau is talked about like some defensive stalwart lol. Talk about a player trying to re-invent himself.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Never thought I'd see the day Huberdeau is talked about like some defensive stalwart lol. Talk about a player trying to re-invent himself.

Or a player doing what it takes to win?

He's talked about watching the way the Tampa players played and committing to the defensive side to win.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Flames are FAR more likely to be a playoff team based on the schedule remaining

Panthers also chose to do this with their presidents trophy winning team.

I think the main point here is that the Flames are expected to play a system not run and gun. Easier to put up points playing run and gun...harder to win long term. Comparing only points to say who is better is short sighted.

Huberdeau having top 3 defensive metrics for a forward after two months of Sutter is a good sign.

They wouldn't play the games if they didn't have to.

Huberdeau on a 55-point pace and Tkachuk on a 112-point pace was against the odds at one point too.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

They wouldn't play the games if they didn't have to.

Huberdeau on a 55-point pace and Tkachuk on a 112-point pace was against the odds at one point too.

Do you think Tkachuk is going to finish the season 57 points ahead of Huberdeau? because I'll take the under on that

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Or a player doing what it takes to win?

He's talked about watching the way the Tampa players played and committing to the defensive side to win.

I think it would be great if he can be a good 200 ft player but the cost has been a huge dip in his offensive production so far. And being an offensive winger has been his bread and butter his his whole career.



But if it results in a lot of winning then true, who cares but so far that hasn't been the case either.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Or a player doing what it takes to win?

He's talked about watching the way the Tampa players played and committing to the defensive side to win.

I mean I guess thats what he's trying to do but 10.5 a year should be on pace for 105 points also.

[memphusk]

Hell just get 90 points even.

[JohnnyB]

If he's a ppg player the rest of the season he'll end up with 70 points.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

If he's a ppg player the rest of the season he'll end up with 70 points.

70 points and the 3rd best defensive metrics in the NHL is pretty good for 5.9M
and more importantly will be playoff results

Then put it all together from the start next season

Iginla had 73 points in 04
96 in 02 when they missed the playoffs

Which season was better?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I think it would be great if he can be a good 200 ft player but the cost has been a huge dip in his offensive production so far. And being an offensive winger has been his bread and butter his his whole career.



But if it results in a lot of winning then true, who cares but so far that hasn't been the case either.

He’s scoring a point a game lately. I wouldn’t be looking his direction for the flames biggest problem

[jayswin]

That actually thrills me about Huberdeau. So he basically started reinventing himself into Sutter's system at the start of the season to a huge detriment of his point production (a process that put both Tkachuk and Gaudreau down to 60-70 point players for FULL seasons) AND has put himself into elite defensive forward company WHILE producing at a point per game lately now that he's getting better at it?

Yeah, I'll take that to the bank.

[jayswin]

Love the player. He's frustrating himself because he wants to do everything that Sutter asks of him defensively and still puts pressure on himself to score and assist more up front, immediately, AND is pretty much at a point per game pace lately. Both Guadreau and Tkachuck struggled with this for a full season, don't forget that fact as irrational and emotional as we can get as fans.

We want to win a championship, not regular season, individual scoring titles. We're not the Oilers. (Who ironically beat us in the playoffs last season )

EDIT: And he's doing this, imo, without the type of line mates that he excels with (no puck carriers, no explosive speed). Very impressive.

[Bingo]

Digging into Huberdeau's defensive metrics more.

Earlier I had said that you can't take on ice metrics like xGA60 as an individual skill. A good line is a good line, and you can't be that bad if the line works, but that doesn't mean player "X" is doing the heavy lifting.

But Huberdeau is interesting.

His xGA60 is 1.78, but his linemates are back from him (Toffoli at 2.07, Lindholm at 2.30)

Then you look at Toffoli with other players

1.79 with Toffoli or Lindholm (both often)
1.67 with Backlund
1.57 with Coleman

The only forwards on the team where he's had any amount of time that he has an average xGA60 is with Kadri and Mangipane (2.31 and 2.48) but those two forwards have the worst and second worst xGA60 on the team (2.83 and 3.00).

The only two forwards on the team that have been better without him are the two above; Mangiapane and Kadri, and they haven't really been great with anyone in defensive numbers.

Doing something right? Need a bigger sample size?

[FlamesAddiction]

It's good that Huberdeau is doing somethings well and his defensive metrics reflect that, but he needs to be on the scoresheet practically every night plus have great defensive metrics. He is supposed to be this team's superstar player, but so far, this team has not looked like it has a superstar player on the roster.

I am somewhat comforted by the fact that once Tkachuk and Gaudreau got the finer points of the system down, the offense came almost effortlessly. I am hoping the same thing happens with Huberdeau.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's good that Huberdeau is doing somethings well and his defensive metrics reflect that, but he needs to be on the scoresheet practically every night plus have great defensive metrics. He is supposed to be this team's superstar player, but so far, this team has not looked like it has a superstar player on the roster.

I am somewhat comforted by the fact that once Tkachuk and Gaudreau got the finer points of the system down, the offense came almost effortlessly. I am hoping the same thing happens with Huberdeau.

Huberdeau will collect this PPG and be an defensive asset but you are correct that what we need is a superstar for $10.5 million.

That player has to be a game changer type player that can take the team on his back and give them a chance to win.

Huberdeau has not shown a single game this season where I believed he could turn the tide.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Never thought I'd see the day Huberdeau is talked about like some defensive stalwart lol. Talk about a player trying to re-invent himself.

I’d say being the best defensive forward at even strength is the player sending a message to his coach and to his team.

He’s not playing around. He’s one of the best players in the world. Follow his lead.

Huberdeau wasn’t scoring. So he decided he wasn’t going to be scored on.

0.92 GA/60 after last night. That’s top-15 in the entire league.

PPG with top-20 defense IS a superstar performance.

Nobody on the team within half a goal.

Backlund is the closest regular at 1.65 GA/60.

He’s the best player on the PP - 10.7 G/60, followed by Toffoli at 10.42 (Kadri is 3rd, 10.39).

Don’t get scored on 5v5, kill them on the man advantage.

The plan is working.

[Flamesfan05]

No the plan is not working

They need Huberdeau to score like a 10M man

They struggle to score again bottom feeders like Columbus and Montreal
Better schedule coming up? Lol..remember all those games against Ottawa 2 yrs ago?