Brad Treliving needs to go

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The GM isn't at fault but coaching is an issue and has been since training camp.

If that was the team extending themselves offensively last night we have major issues as they could hardly generate anything against the worst defensive team in the NHL.

6-10 major turnovers leading to odd man rushes or breakaways isn't a coaching issue.

No coach would have four guys behind the net and Michael Stone alone and turning it over.

No coach would have neither defensive paying attention to Patrick Laine behind them early in a game.

Mental sharpness just wasn't there.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bingo

6-10 major turnovers leading to odd man rushes or breakaways isn't a coaching issue.

No coach would have four guys behind the net and Michael Stone alone and turning it over.

No coach would have neither defensive paying attention to Patrick Laine behind them early in a game.

Mental sharpness just wasn't there.

They make mistakes that you learn not to make in your early teens.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Bingo

6-10 major turnovers leading to odd man rushes or breakaways isn't a coaching issue.

No coach would have four guys behind the net and Michael Stone alone and turning it over.

No coach would have neither defensive paying attention to Patrick Laine behind them early in a game.

Mental sharpness just wasn't there.

Sutter said post-game that most of them were there for a visit and not to play a hockey game. Seems like Johnny had an off game too because they were all too busy hanging out the night before. I find it so silly that the hive mind of negative Nellie's is putting that on coaching.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

The GM isn't at fault but coaching is an issue and has been since training camp.



If that was the team extending themselves offensively last night we have major issues as they could hardly generate anything against the worst defensive team in the NHL.

I stay away from the PGTs because they are a ####show, but from my perspective last night's loss was all about the players not being sharp. They were constantly bobbling pucks and missing passes that they usually connect. Just a very, very sloppy game.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[really?]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah I think the coach is the problem right now, not the roster or anything the GM has done. He's trying to make them playa dated style of hockey and players aren't buying in. They don't have a cheat code line like last season where they could rely on timely goals from an elite 1st line. They collectively need to play faster as a group with the top three lines looking to generate offense. They aren't even playing good defense so it's the worst of both worlds right now.

I agree with the dated style take, but the roster lacks players with the ability to individually alter the structure on the ice. Gaudreau did that routinely, creating outnumbered situations and the stats speak for themselves. The Flames have a competent roster, but without the kind of talent to put the opposition on its heals, the team has to do it collectively. Sutter is good at leading guys to pressure the opposition and attack with purpose, but this doesn’t tend to put the opposition in vulnerable positions. Unless the team is willing to actively pursue players with the speed and handle to dictate the game, Sutter’s style is likely the only way this group has a chance to succeed.

Sutter is still a good coach, Treliving has done a respectable job of accumulating solid, professional players, but the rest of the league is committed to accumulating skill and speed even if a step back is needed to do so. I imagine ownership won’t go down that path, so an aging, competent roster is about as good as can be expected. It appears that Sutter has this group playing as fast as the can collectively, it’s just hard in todays game to generate odd man groupings without players whose skills allow them to do such individually.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Last night wasn't coaching at all. Strange post game to go after coaching when you have a team over extend offensively all night and give up ten bell chances.

Literally nothing in that would come from a coach ... quite the opposite.

And the Flames aren't aiming to play slow or told to play slow. That was one of Sutter's biggest complaints when he took over the team ... pace of play.

Sutter will have a shelf life, hoping it's not now, but a game like that is 100% on the players, and not the coach, and certainly not Treliving like the dweeb who bumped this asserted.

Someone has to be accountable. The GM is a good place to start.

The way accountability works is that you have someone at the top who creates accountability at all levels down through the organisation. The Columbus situation on and off the ice is quite revealing about the failures of the organization in this regard.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Someone has to be accountable. The GM is a good place to start.

The way accountability works is that you have someone at the top who creates accountability at all levels down through the organisation. The Columbus situation on and off the ice is quite revealing about the failures of the organization in this regard.

People trot out accountability as a cliche response to point the finger at the person they've decided they don't like.

In most work environments, personal accountability is what drives success.
Professional sports is a unique environment because the players are the most highly paid employees with the most scarce skill set. But ultimately they are also the ones that need to hold themselves and each other accountable.

A decision on whether or not the GM should be fired has to be made on a far broader and deeper evaluation than "WELL SOMEONE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE!!!!".

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

People trot out accountability as a cliche response to point the finger at the person they've decided they don't like.

In most work environments, personal accountability is what drives success.
Professional sports is a unique environment because the players are the most highly paid employees with the most scarce skill set. But ultimately they are also the ones that need to hold themselves and each other accountable.

A decision on whether or not the GM should be fired has to be made on a far broader and deeper evaluation than "WELL SOMEONE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE!!!!".

The GM chooses the players, so ensuring accountability exists within the player group is still his responsibility.

[bluejays]

There's so much puzzling about this whole situation these past few years. We've gone through a lot of coaches, with varying styles to no success. What I thought were divas (namely our two fallen stars - Tkachuk and Gaudreau) are gone with no remaining players who appear to have the same attitude, still here. So what could be common through the years to not allow players to perform at their best? This culture has been continuing on and off through stretches over the years and I'm at a loss for words what it could be because there's very little on the surface to point to.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Someone has to be accountable. The GM is a good place to start.

The way accountability works is that you have someone at the top who creates accountability at all levels down through the organisation. The Columbus situation on and off the ice is quite revealing about the failures of the organization in this regard.

That was pretty smug.

Can you explain any other words to me that I wouldn't understand?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by bluejays

There's so much puzzling about this whole situation these past few years. We've gone through a lot of coaches, with varying styles to no success. What I thought were divas (namely our two fallen stars - Tkachuk and Gaudreau) are gone with no remaining players who appear to have the same attitude, still here. So what could be common through the years to not allow players to perform at their best? This culture has been continuing on and off through stretches over the years and I'm at a loss for words what it could be because there's very little on the surface to point to.

Part of the problem is that, as fans, we create narratives out of very limited information and layer them on top of each other, and then expect reality to follow those narratives.

The truth is that hockey is a pretty fickle spot with a ton of variables contributing to success and less distance between the best team and the worst team than anybody really acknowledges. The idea that this team has a common thread running through years and years impacting the culture just doesn’t make any sense.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by really?

I agree with the dated style take, but the roster lacks players with the ability to individually alter the structure on the ice. Gaudreau did that routinely, creating outnumbered situations and the stats speak for themselves. The Flames have a competent roster, but without the kind of talent to put the opposition on its heals, the team has to do it collectively. Sutter is good at leading guys to pressure the opposition and attack with purpose, but this doesn’t tend to put the opposition in vulnerable positions. Unless the team is willing to actively pursue players with the speed and handle to dictate the game, Sutter’s style is likely the only way this group has a chance to succeed.

Sutter is still a good coach, Treliving has done a respectable job of accumulating solid, professional players, but the rest of the league is committed to accumulating skill and speed even if a step back is needed to do so. I imagine ownership won’t go down that path, so an aging, competent roster is about as good as can be expected. It appears that Sutter has this group playing as fast as the can collectively, it’s just hard in todays game to generate odd man groupings without players whose skills allow them to do such individually.

Respectfully disagree.

They are playing simple game which seems to dictate that if a play isn’t available, they dump and chase, get it to the point, and to the net with traffic.

The puck moves faster than anyone can skate and they have guys that can skate well enough to move the puck quickly.

As they continue to develop chemistry you would hope to see it increase. We will see

I think it was a dumb move to break up the lines after the Edmonton game because while they worked on the overall structure, it was pushing the final lines and chemistry development out

And the biggest problems all year have been the costly breakdowns and the lack of offense

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Part of the problem is that, as fans, we create narratives out of very limited information and layer them on top of each other, and then expect reality to follow those narratives.

The truth is that hockey is a pretty fickle spot with a ton of variables contributing to success and less distance between the best team and the worst team than anybody really acknowledges. The idea that this team has a common thread running through years and years impacting the culture just doesn’t make any sense.

Well other than what seems to be a culture of allowing players to quit on coaches.

I mean, I obviously don’t know what the real culture is like but it does seem like making the coach the fall guy is an organizational staple. Maybe the players realize this?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well other than what seems to be a culture of allowing players to quit on coaches.

I mean, I obviously don’t know what the real culture is like but it does seem like making the coach the fall guy is an organizational staple. Maybe the players realize this?

It just seems incredibly unlikely for it to carry through different cores and even different whole teams, doesn’t it?

[Strange Brew]

Well if the organization doesn’t value coaching that could filter down to the players.

If ownership thinks coaches are disposable then players might sense they hold the power maybe. This organization goes through coaches quickly.

The dynamic has changed in pro sports to where players have far more power but I don’t think it’s the same in every organization.

[Backstop]

It's this guy! Mr Red has been in the basement of the Saddledome since day one. Influencing everything with his average everyday ways. That's his red Flames stapler, the source of his power and make no mistake, he's pure unadulterated mediocrity itself. While he remains the Flames will never be great, or terrible, just vanilla pudding.

[Burning Beard]

Sutter ain't going anywhere despite what any bozo fans are calling for. If players have tuned him out they are in for a rough 3 years coming up as he isn't a coach I'd want to piss off with an attitude like that.

[curves2000]

I know this is a GM thread and not a coaching thread but it's always interesting to me how different comments and takes by the same people in charge (GM, Coach etc) are done to suit their own narrative.

Last year the Flames played incredible and had an excellent overall season. Sutter took a lot of pride and was taking swipes at the previous coaching staff with takes such as "They were the worst conditioned club I have seen, we got them sorted out" etc.

Do I believe previous coaches had the team "poorly conditioned?" not at all. Heck, we still have the same fitness and conditioning staff! The guy who helped the King's win the cup with Sutter!

Now all of a sudden the team doesn't look fast at all, they look older, slower, tired and out of touch. What's the excuse now?

[really?]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Respectfully disagree.

They are playing simple game which seems to dictate that if a play isn’t available, they dump and chase, get it to the point, and to the net with traffic.

The puck moves faster than anyone can skate and they have guys that can skate well enough to move the puck quickly.

As they continue to develop chemistry you would hope to see it increase. We will see

I think it was a dumb move to break up the lines after the Edmonton game because while they worked on the overall structure, it was pushing the final lines and chemistry development out

And the biggest problems all year have been the costly breakdowns and the lack of offense

As you say we shall see, but I don’t blame Sutter, Treliving or Huberdeau for not being McDavid or Mackinnon. Scheming against a system is basically a matter of maintaining a perimeter, McDavid, Mackinnon, Gaudreau, and a few others can make the perimeter morph into chaos.

Hopefully the Flames pull a Blues redux from a few years ago, but I wouldn’t wager on it. As a fan I’m hoping for the best, but I see a greater potential for this team to miss the playoffs than to make an appearance.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Sutter ain't going anywhere despite what any bozo fans are calling for. If players have tuned him out they are in for a rough 3 years coming up as he isn't a coach I'd want to piss off with an attitude like that.

They tuned him out quickly in LA after the cups and openly called for him to be fired.

What is he going to do when pissed off? Play Lucic more?

Maybe he should focus on game planning and learning match lines and putting players in positions to have success not gift his pets offensive zone starts.