Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I'm immature enough that I laughed at this, and am tempted to do this with Smith.

You'd think the weather would be a bit warmer today with all the hot air coming out of Alberta.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Since when did the Chamber of Commerce and CAPP become so biased??

The Canadian Energy Centre needs to put CAPP in their place!

[woob]

Originally Posted by Locke

"Make Smith a Radio Host Again"

I'm sure someone else could do a better version. Maybe using NDP orange?

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1599860061966372886

Some balanced journalism from the herald.

...

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Such winning.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1599870520539123712

Two peas (responses) in a pod.

[Fuzz]

"[It's] pure chaos. [It's] kind of disaster-mode even now," said Dr. Paul Parks, an ER physician based in Medicine Hat, Alta., who checks in with his colleagues around the province daily.

"We worry about those children and the families that may get missed and may even die because of the unbelievably severe overcrowding that we're facing."

Both Parks and Mithani are calling on the provincial government to be more transparent about the situation and to provide a clear plan.

"It's been deafening how quiet or lacking the response has been. And that's really, really hard for healthcare workers out there that are seeing all the suffering," said Parks, noting that when adult hospitals were overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients, public health officials held regular news conferences to keep people informed.

"Declare it for the crisis it is."

Alberta's new interim Chief Medical Officer of Health, Dr. Mark Joffe, has not spoken publicly since his appointment in mid-November.

"I think it's very important for the public and healthcare workers to hear from our leaders and that includes the chief medical officer of health. That includes the health minister. That includes the premier," said Mithani.

She's also calling for a high profile campaign promoting influenza and COVID-19 vaccination and wants the province to restore the ability of school boards to make their own decisions on mask mandates.

The Alberta government recently banned them from doing so.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...675466?cmp=rss

I remember during one of the covid waves, people were saying that as long as it was just old people dying, people wouldn't care enough to do what it takes. If it ever hit children, then we'd see real action. Well it's sad to see, but people don't seem to give a #### about kids, either. Maybe when it's their kid in the hospital they get angry about the unavailable service, but that's about it. Does anyone care about anyone anymore? Yoho? You give a ####?

[PsYcNeT]

Gee it's almost like some of us were banging the drum about ER wait times a month ago and were told if we Didn't Die, they were working as intended.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Gee it's almost like some of us were banging the drum about ER wait times a month ago and were told if we Didn't Die, they were working as intended.

I stand by my position.

The measure of success of the ER is the ability to prevent loss of life. The complaint was that wait times were unreasonable. If you go to the ER and don’t die the wait time was reasonable. The discussion was not about overall healthcare capacity or certainly your original complaint wasn’t.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

I stand by my position.

The measure of success of the ER is the ability to prevent loss of life. The complaint was that wait times were unreasonable. If you go to the ER and don’t die the wait time was reasonable. The discussion was not about overall healthcare capacity or certainly your original complaint wasn’t.

It’s just an incredibly stupid position. Wait times are a direct symptom of capacity constraints, that’s obvious to absolutely everyone. And the other reasons why it’s unreasonable were explained to you in detail so continuing to hold that position is just being stubborn.

It’s not some theoretical that needs to be mathed out to see the results, the discussion is based on what’s happening now. Putting your head in the sand and saying the discussion wasn’t about the current situation when it was had while the current situation was still on going is really annoying behaviour.

[Ozy_Flame]

That is a very bleak, very libertarian view of emergency rooms. Good thing you're not running the show. My colleagues who work in ER would be fired if their measure of good wait times was 'not die'.

There are so many different ailments, illnesses and injuries it's unfair to cast them all in the same pot. Response and care depends on severity, criticality, priority, etc.

There are three main measures of success to an ER (depending on who you ask, but these are pretty common):

1. Average wait time
2. Average length of stay
3. Time to RVU (clinician productivity metric)

You can include other metrics (e.g. total patients seen, total RVUs, avg eval and management metrics, patient satisfaction, etc.). But there is far more nuance to the success of an ER than 'not dying'. That is a very myopic (and dark) view of how care is triaged in our healthcare system.

[Slava]

I’m just curious what people would like to see done here? It seems like this is a problem everywhere at this point, and it’s not just an Alberta issue. I see the news stories about the fact we saw this coming (because of Australia) and that the situation is grim. I can’t disagree with any of that. But I don’t see a solution that could be implemented and fix this? Maybe I’m too negative?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m just curious what people would like to see done here? It seems like this is a problem everywhere at this point, and it’s not just an Alberta issue. I see the news stories about the fact we saw this coming (because of Australia) and that the situation is grim. I can’t disagree with any of that. But I don’t see a solution that could be implemented and fix this? Maybe I’m too negative?

It’s less of a care problem that can simply be fixed now and more of a problem that indicates a bigger issue that needs to be prioritized over time. More capacity, more care options, a better triage process, etc. These are bigger issues.

We’re pretty much ####ed for right now but we don’t have to be next time.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m just curious what people would like to see done here? It seems like this is a problem everywhere at this point, and it’s not just an Alberta issue. I see the news stories about the fact we saw this coming (because of Australia) and that the situation is grim. I can’t disagree with any of that. But I don’t see a solution that could be implemented and fix this? Maybe I’m too negative?

Easy solution to reduce transmission and take some burden off the system is pretty obvious. Bring back masking. It doesn't even have to be a forced policy on businesses, but since this is hitting children the hardest, it would make a lot of sense to bring it back for schools, transit, large events. Maybe encourage more WFH for a bit. Nothing drastic, but, like, something? Every time I read an article about it, the experts commenting say to bring back masks, so it mgiht be time to listen to them. Of course, Mommy Danny knows best, so this will never happen. Freedom or death and all.

[Ozy_Flame]

Slava you're not negative, but it's not hard to be frustrated with the system (I get that). Often it relates to availability of resources, including (for example) if the right equipment is available at the ER of the hospital for emergency procedures, like surgery.

It's also helping to minimize the queue by having people like Nurses/Practitioners/Social services helping manage the line, or having a digital app to register details before arrival. Even having master data management for out-of-province ER visitors would be super helpful to pull up their files (e.g. Coast-to-coast Connect Care, but more easily accessible). But those are value-added services and I'm sure there are a number of ways to help the queues.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Easy solution to reduce transmission and take some burden off the system is pretty obvious. Bring back masking. It doesn't even have to be a forced policy on businesses, but since this is hitting children the hardest, it would make a lot of sense to bring it back for schools, transit, large events. Maybe encourage more WFH for a bit. Nothing drastic, but, like, something? Every time I read an article about it, the experts commenting say to bring back masks, so it mgiht be time to listen to them. Of course, Mommy Danny knows best, so this will never happen. Freedom or death and all.

This and flu shots

Only 20% of Albertans have gotten flu shots. 1/3rd of kids icu cases are for flu. This is mainly a failure of preventative care.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6664759

Next this is going to transfer into seniors as kids infect relatives at Christmas.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

This and flu shots

Only 20% of Albertans have gotten flu shots. 1/3rd of kids icu cases are for flu. This is mainly a failure of preventative care.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6664759

Do they still do school flu shot clinics? Seems it would make a lot of sense to run these in October.

[PsYcNeT]

Lets not pretend antagonizing doctors and nurses, and gutting a huge part of our medical system doesn't make this much worse than it should be.

FWIW the whole fam got our flu shots last night, was actually pretty swift even though with an under 5 we had to book an appt at an AHS clinic.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GGG

I stand by my position.

The measure of success of the ER is the ability to prevent loss of life. The complaint was that wait times were unreasonable. If you go to the ER and don’t die the wait time was reasonable. The discussion was not about overall healthcare capacity or certainly your original complaint wasn’t.

But why is death the health consequence that is your arbitrary measuring stick for whether or not an ER is working?

That's what I don't understand about your position.

As pointed out by ozy there are a wide range of other health outcomes. Maybe what you mean is that the new norm of 10 hour waits is something that society better get used to.

But I disagree, I don't think Albertans should stand for that. Slava asks what can be done, here are a few of my uneducated random ideas:

1. Build another hospital (or two...) in Calgary, which has a small number now for a large population
2. Foster increased spending to nurses and doctors, figure out a way to get the money to front line workers to encourage workforce participation and retention
3. Require / strongly encourage post-secondary schools with dr / nursing / health care worker programs to bring in more applicants and lower the entry requirements a little bit. Engage with them and ask them why we are not pumping out more workers and then work with them to solve these specific problems.
4. This will be unpopular but do NOT institute masking. Masking has weakened society's collective immune systems and is contributing to a surge in non-covid related illnesses like RSV, flu, etc. We need to take the L for a year or two and get back to building up normal immune systems / stronger society. Masking was a good solution for COVID but is causing other bad health outcomes as people's immune systems are now weaker as a result of being isolated and not exposed to the various viruses that mutate and rampage through society every fall.

[Superflyer]

I was reading this yesterday and was suprised that LPNs are not actually classified as nurses, although they do a lot of the work that an RN does.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tion-1.6671783

She's a licensed practical nurse (LPN) who works in High River, Alta. But while she does the job of a nurse, her position isn't classified as such in Alberta.

"It's frustrating," said Wong. "We are nurses and we do nurses' jobs in this province … but we're not even classified as nurses."

That's why Wong and three other LPNs, through their grassroots group they call LPNs for Change, are calling on the Alberta government to reclassify their role to direct nursing care.

The move would put LPNs alongside registered nurses and registered psychiatric nurses, which Wong said could help recruit and retain nurses in Alberta and create better trust with the public.

Changing the classification would have no real impact on the system, he said, but it would improve the morale of LPNs in the province.

And keeping up morale important, Guest said, especially "at a time when our health system needs them very much, at a time when there's a shortage, at a time when they can get a job anywhere."

For the "People will not leave the province over the government" people

Becca — whose real name CBC News has agreed not to use — worked as an LPN across various departments in Alberta for more than a decade.

She left Alberta for Ontario two months ago.

"The respect kept declining over the years, and that was a big reason why I left," Becca said.

"One day I came home and was like, 'I can't do this anymore, getting treated poorly, being called a bottom feeder, a certified Band-Aid applier.'"

Becca is now settled in Ontario and has a new job lined up. She's doing LPN courses to keep up with the province's legislation for safe practice.

"When I transferred my license out here, it was $30,000 cheaper to go to school, and you get a lot of respect, which I haven't felt in probably seven years."

[GGG]

Weakened immune system is not the correct term for what is happening here. The immune system is not like a muscle that needs exercise. What is happening is a large number of immunity naive people are getting sick at once.

So reducing the total number of people getting sick reduces total harm to people. Wearing masks may have moved more RSV to this year but it hasn’t increased total numbers or severity.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GGG

Weakened immune system is not the correct term for what is happening here. The immune system is not like a muscle that needs exercise. What is happening is a large number of immunity naive people are getting sick at once.

So reducing the total number of people getting sick reduces total harm to people. Wearing masks may have moved more RSV to this year but it hasn’t increased total numbers or severity.

what does "immunity naive" mean?