[PGT] Flames lose to Hurricanes 3-2

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by butterfly

If you look at the stats, the people who are below expectations are Huberdeau, Weegar, Mangiapane, Markstrom. Everyone else is right around where they were expected to be except Ruzicka (above expectations).

Weegar is second to only Zadorov in terms of relative Corsi. Not counting Stone, who was having a great start before he got hurt. Huberdeau's fundamentals haven't been bad, but everyone expects more.

Hanifin has been downright awful and has been pulling Andersson down with him. Tanev has struggled possession-wise as well. Lindholm, Dube and Mangiapane have fallen off significantly.

[Jore]

Went to this game yesterday. Hurricanes were clearly faster and sharper, and Flames looked old and slow, but hung in there thanks largely to Vladar and a few good offensive breaks.

Mangiapane and Dube worked hard but it's clear they have no chemistry as a line. Kadri clearly had quality but no support as a result.

Toffoli looked up for it, as did Huberdeau and Ruzicka. Backlund performed to his level too.

Lindholm was pretty much anonymous. Couldn't get a clean handle on the puck over the whole game. Had one shot into the crest when he had a backdoor option. Did not notice Coleman at all. What a huge let down this season for him.

Lucic/Lewis/Ritchie what can you say at this point, 1/4 into the season. Just not NHL level. Got demolished every time they were out. Tons of chances and shots against. Sutter must have noticed for once and seriously limited their time after a ####show shift in the first period or early 2nd.

Lewis is a terrible PKer, but got put out there late in the 3rd and gave up a crucial 50/50 zone entry against Kotkaniemi, who's been garbage this year. Lewis on the ice yet again for a goal against, on the ice for 5 of the last 6 goals against.

Weegar and Tanev were by far the best defenders. The only ones capable of clean exits, quick regroups in the neutral zone, quick puck chips into good spaces when under pressure. The drop off from them to the other D was immense.

Hanifin and Andersson were awful. Couldn't move the puck at all. Hanifin same story we've seen for a while. How he allowed the cross crease on the PK goal against was beyond me.

Stone and Zadorov were ok but definitely can't be counted on to make a high value play. Zadorov apparently the only skater who can gain the zone, but gives all the offensive chances he generates right back through his processing speed and lack of coordination.

All in all, a boring, low energy effort. Maybe a handful of clean zone exits and rushes the whole game. Serious lack of speed, skill, and balance in the lines.

[madmike]

I said this in another thread, but at this point Huberdeau and Weegar are not the big problem. It’s the rest of the lineup.

Anderson/Hanifin have no business playing together. They’re the team’s worst pairing. Neither is good enough defensively to cover for the other.

Dube and Mangiapane have been all but useless. They’re giveaway machines and they’re not generating chances.

Lucic and Rooney shouldn’t be playing at all, but that’s not really a revelation. Sutter loves them and will continue to roll them out.

And then there’s Markstrom. He’s good for at least one softie a game and given the number of one-goal games the Flames have lost, he’s cost them a good 5-6 points at least.

[mennoknight]

I cam handle losses but oh my goodness this is a BORING hockey team to watch.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I think this team needs a serious retool. The only safe ones in my opinion are:

Kadri, Huberdeau, Weegar, Backlund, and Andersson. I think Backlund is a Flame for life, that’s why I kept him.

Ones I can see getting entertained:
Lindholm (nothing short of overpayment)
Hanifin (for a top 6 winger)
Mangiapane (would hope to keep him but I’ve been very disappointed with him)
Lucic (could see Boston wanting him for Foligno+)

Contracts likely not to be moved:

Coleman
Markstrom

Lindholm and Hanifin could fetch huge returns sold separately while we recoup some top assets and picks for players that could very well ditch us later.

Maybe I’m just off my rocker, but I too was at the game live. It was a very uninspiring game. Took our foot off the gas when we needed gas the most at the end of the game. It’s like we gave up after we dinged the post.

[stang]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Without digging into the advanced stats, which is what i'm asking you to do, I see Tkachuk has 15 pts in 27 playoffs games and was commanding 10+ million, if you've watched the Flames you'd know he's a disappearing act come post season time. Kadri has 44 pts in 52 post season games and tends to elevate his game.

Now of course we have to make the post season first, but if I'm paying Tkachuk 10 or more, or Kadri is available at 7. I'm taking Kadri regardless of age. We know what Tkachuk is in the post season, hes had 5 years to show us.

At roughly the same age in his career Kadri had 6 points in 13 playoff games.

In his 10 years with Toronto he played 19 playoff games and had 10 points. He only rocketed up his PO points in Colorado.

[Enoch Root]

Some interesting comments from Bieksa and Hrudey last night...

They thought that the top line was allowed to play differently last year - the other 3 lines had to play Sutter hockey, but the top line was allowed to create.

This year, no line is allowed - they are all playing dump and chase.

I think there is some truth in this

[Goriders]

Wonder if it will get to the point that they entertain canning Sutter?

[Ashasx]

considering that line was both offensively and defensively elite, not sure what this org is doing.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Wonder if it will get to the point that they entertain canning Sutter?

Nope.

If they do, Brad will be following him out the door.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

considering that line was both offensively and defensively elite, not sure what this org is doing.

And how did they do when the going got tough against the Oilers? In my opinion, that is what Sutter is looking to avoid this year. The Kings teams always came into the playoffs as a lower tier but ready for playoff hockey. In 13-14 they inserted prospects Tofolli and Pearson half way through the season and that kick started the scoring. Hoping for the same here soon.

[Heavy Jack]

We’re a month and a half into the season and just extended Sutter, he isn’t going anywhere and the core just went through a massive reset. As tough as it is to be patient that’s pretty much all we can do and expect at this point, if it ends up leading to a so-so finish we’ve picked probably the best year to do that with how deep the draft coming up is but it’s only 21 games in and we are a point outside of the playoffs.

I would like to see the Flames finally take a look at Phillips at this point, could be the spark the club needs and it’s a great story all round with him being a local boy. This club is missing that shifty winger and by no means am I saying or implying Phillips as a Gaudreau replacement I think he has a skillset that could slot in quite nicely with the current top 6.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Phillips
Ruzicka - Kadri - Toffoli
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman
Lucic - Dube - Ritchie
Lewis, Rooney

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

And how did they do when the going got tough against the Oilers? In my opinion, that is what Sutter is looking to avoid this year. The Kings teams always came into the playoffs as a lower tier but ready for playoff hockey. In 13-14 they inserted prospects Tofolli and Pearson half way through the season and that kick started the scoring. Hoping for the same here soon.

I'm sorry, was it only the 1st line that forgot how to play hockey that series?

Why are Flames fans lying to themselves?

[TheChief]

Ive never seen so many people turn on a coach so fast as some members have here on Sutter

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm sorry, was it only the 1st line that forgot how to play hockey that series?

Why are Flames fans lying to themselves?

Backlunds line was good. And now we have a few lines built like that.

[Heavy Jack]

Did they forget when he came in during the Covid season and the massive losing streak after a quick first three wins? It’s going to take a bit of time for Sutter to get this team rolling but when it does we’ll be back to singing his praises.

[Naitix]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Some interesting comments from Bieksa and Hrudey last night...

They thought that the top line was allowed to play differently last year - the other 3 lines had to play Sutter hockey, but the top line was allowed to create.

This year, no line is allowed - they are all playing dump and chase.

I think there is some truth in this

I definitely agree, I was gonna mention this but didn’t have any actual evidence to back it up. If I had to guess that line played sutter hockey early on and it didn’t work (when they struggled at the start), then they found chemistry and plays that work for them. The quick up from tkachuk to Johnny in their own zone/neutral zone, the constant blind passes from tkachuk, the “dangerous” plays in the offensive zone with them cantering the puck all the time,, and they did not play as much dump and chase. All of that screams non sutter hockey. When it started to work sutter could not really tell them to stop as they were scoring and not letting in goals, so he let them play how they wanted more or less.

Could also be why Tkachuk and Sutter did not have a great relationship, Tkachuk wanted to play his game but sutter did not let him at first. I feel like something similar is happening to Huberdeau where he is forced to play the style that does not utilize his skills.

Imo when you have players that got 100+ points, you need to structure players on their line playing to the strengths that let them get those 100+ points, not force them play the same style as scrubs who never touched 30 points

[Kasi]

Yeah just a poor look from Sutter all around on the forward deployment. Personal choices, time on ice, pairings, playing style are all suspect. And it seems clear that some players are just not buying into this. Look at Kadri from first month in how he was engaged to how he’s like now. Sutter is never going to be a players coach or anything but I think he needs to make some adjustments now to fit his stars and to regain the locker room. A long listless streak will sink both this season and his ability to coach this club. I think Trev has to step in and find some way to get a couple prospects up from the minors and jettison the dead weight. Lucic needs to go to the pine and we should really only play 1-2 of Ritchie, Lewis and Rooney.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Ive never seen so many people turn on a coach so fast as some members have here on Sutter

I certainly haven’t turned on Sutter, but I’d also say he has been complete trash to start this season. Oodles of bad decisions.

He needs to be better.

[CroCop]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

And how did they do when the going got tough against the Oilers? In my opinion, that is what Sutter is looking to avoid this year. The Kings teams always came into the playoffs as a lower tier but ready for playoff hockey. In 13-14 they inserted prospects Tofolli and Pearson half way through the season and that kick started the scoring. Hoping for the same here soon.

This is not a playoff team but there’s always next year.