exactly .. media and internet paints it as country
A vs country B and the west rallies behind one but really this whole situation ultimately boils down to a few powerful people instigating the mass suffering of citizens , livelihoods and infrastructure across two countries that will be felt for generations for selfish reasons and there are plenty of victims on the russian side of it too . and saying that isn't discounting the injustices committed against Ukraine whatsoever . it just is the reality . no one on either side of the equation will look back and say they wanted this
getting caught up in cheering for the destruction of one side is really losing sight of this larger truth ... wars suck for every one and affects us all
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I think the violence in high-def ultrarealism is a good thing. The advancements in communication technology has made it impossible for governments to hide the true horror of war.
But the reality is that Ukrainians need to kill all Russians in Ukraine or they will be killed.
It literally is a kill or be killed situation.
I don't get great pleasure from seeing hundreds of Russians dying in Ukraine daily. But fact is, where Russian soldiers go, mass rapes, mass murders, mass graves, mass kidnappings and mass targeting of civilians occur.
Who's doing that? It sure as #### isn't the Ukrainians like the RU government is saying. Where Russians soldiers in Ukraine go, innocent Ukrainians are dying on a massive scale. So to put it bluntly, to stop the death of innocents Ukrainians, the Russian soldiers who are occupying Ukraine must die.
So with that in mind, I guess I actually DO get some satisfaction knowing the Russian soldiers in Ukraine are getting liquidated. I'm cheering for Ukraine. If that means "cheering" for HIMARs to liquidate a battalion of RU soldiers to make that happen, then cheers to that.
Ukrainian lives >>> Russian soldiers lives.
If that makes me a bad person, so be it. Don't really care. I care about this war stopping and Ukrainians getting to live in peace. If it takes the bloodshed of the RU armed forces to make that happen, that's fine with me. Ukraine didn't ask for this and Russia had, and still has, every opportunity to stop this nonsense.
All Russia has to do is pack up, go home, have some ####ty Putin-rally about how they beat the Nazis in Ukraine and watch the Russian people lap it up. Pity that hasn't happened yet. Every group of RU soldiers that are eliminated brings us a step closer to making peace for Ukraine a reality.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 11-14-2022 at 06:43 PM.
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I don't get great pleasure from seeing hundreds of Russians dying in Ukraine daily. But fact is, where Russian soldiers go, mass rapes, mass murders, mass graves, mass kidnappings and mass targeting of civilians occur.
Who's doing that? It sure as #### isn't the Ukrainians like the RU government is saying. Where Russians soldiers in Ukraine go, innocent Ukrainians are dying on a massive scale. So to put it bluntly, to stop the death of innocents Ukrainians, the Russian soldiers who are occupying Ukraine must die.
So with that in mind, I guess I actually DO get some satisfaction knowing the Russian soldiers in Ukraine are getting liquidated. I'm cheering for Ukraine. If that means "cheering" for HIMARs to liquidate a battalion of RU soldiers to make that happen, then cheers to that.
Ukrainian lives >>> Russian soldiers lives.
If that makes me a bad person, so be it. Don't really care. I care about this war stopping and Ukrainians getting to live in peace. If it takes the bloodshed of the RU armed forces to make that happen, that's fine with me. Ukraine didn't ask for this and Russia had, and still has, every opportunity to stop this nonsense.
All Russia has to do is pack up, go home, have some ####ty Putin-rally about how they beat the Nazis in Ukraine and watch the Russian people lap it up. Pity that hasn't happened yet. Every group of RU soldiers that are eliminated brings us a step closer to making peace for Ukraine a reality.
cheering for getting one step closer to peace for the ukrainian people makes a lot of reasonable sense .. going a step further by taking pleasure in watching all the footage of those gruesome deaths is another thing
it's the people that seem to enjoy war on some level that i have trouble relating to . it's not a knock on them , i just don't understand it
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This is the real advantage, but if you are a US general the slightly annoying conclusion to be drawn is the US dont really need a replacement for the M1 or most of the rest of their kit, they can easily repulse the Russians and the Chinese with what they have, that numbers make almost no difference of the modern battlefield, almost the whole point of a 4 star General is to fight for funding for new stuff
I would say the Americans are discovering that Russia is a paper tiger but China is still an unknown quantity but it's highly unlikely they are as bad as the Russians. China has huge manpower, manufacturing, and logistical capabilities that Russia does not
There is a new M1 Abrahms, the AbramsX that General Dynamics is starting to showcase as a demonstrator.
I don't get great pleasure from seeing hundreds of Russians dying in Ukraine daily. But fact is, where Russian soldiers go, mass rapes, mass murders, mass graves, mass kidnappings and mass targeting of civilians occur.
Who's doing that? It sure as #### isn't the Ukrainians like the RU government is saying. Where Russians soldiers in Ukraine go, innocent Ukrainians are dying on a massive scale. So to put it bluntly, to stop the death of innocents Ukrainians, the Russian soldiers who are occupying Ukraine must die.
So with that in mind, I guess I actually DO get some satisfaction knowing the Russian soldiers in Ukraine are getting liquidated. I'm cheering for Ukraine. If that means "cheering" for HIMARs to liquidate a battalion of RU soldiers to make that happen, then cheers to that.
Ukrainian lives >>> Russian soldiers lives.
If that makes me a bad person, so be it. Don't really care. I care about this war stopping and Ukrainians getting to live in peace. If it takes the bloodshed of the RU armed forces to make that happen, that's fine with me. Ukraine didn't ask for this and Russia had, and still has, every opportunity to stop this nonsense.
All Russia has to do is pack up, go home, have some ####ty Putin-rally about how they beat the Nazis in Ukraine and watch the Russian people lap it up. Pity that hasn't happened yet. Every group of RU soldiers that are eliminated brings us a step closer to making peace for Ukraine a reality.
Every single Russian soldier on the ground in Ukraine has either already murdered Ukrainians or are there with the intention to murder Ukrainians. There is nothing wrong with being glad when an aggressor is eliminated from the battle and seeing it happen.
The other poster saying that people are enjoying the war too much is one of the most offensive things I have read in this thread. No one is enjoying and everyone would prefer that every single Russia soldier leaves peacefully on their own, but obviously that isn't happening.
I think some people just want to make the "many sides" argument to be edgy or something.
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Ukraine needs to win this fight. They are fighting for their lives, for their freedoms, and pushing back against Tyranny. Winning that fight means killing thousands of Russian soldiers and pushing them all the way back to their borders. That's the grim reality of war. And if it were happening to our country, we would fight and (unfortunately, but necessarily so) kill just as the Ukrainians are.
But do I find footage of actual soldiers (regardless of which side of the war) dying in real time hard to watch? Yes. Those videos above left a pit in my stomach, and I'm certainly not interested in finding more. I think it is a human reaction to feel bad when seeing the pain and suffering of any living being (at least for the 98.5% of the population that isn't sociopathic). Hell, I get that pit in my stomach watching nature documentaries (also known as "tonight on BBC: Cute things eating other cute things").
I think both things can be experienced at the same time.
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I would say the Americans are discovering that Russia is a paper tiger but China is still an unknown quantity but it's highly unlikely they are as bad as the Russians. China has huge manpower, manufacturing, and logistical capabilities that Russia does not
There is a new M1 Abrahms, the AbramsX that General Dynamics is starting to showcase as a demonstrator.
Are they being massacred? I haven't seen Russians being massacred. I've seen them get injured/killed in onesie twosies.
What is the alternative? They are invading another country with the intent to dominate it and its population. They won't leave if you ask nicely, so war it is. Every Russian you kill weakens their army and potentially saves Ukrainian lives. Zooming out and looking at it as humans killing other humans needlessly is reasonable, but that kind of pontificating hardly matters or helps the people whose country has been invaded and citizens have been raped/killed. I mean, yeah, I'm sure the Ukrainians have killed a bunch of nice guys that would have been fun to hang out with, but on the other hand, how the fata are you going to differentiate between the nice-guy Russians and the raping Russians on the battlefield? You can't.
Fair enough for your reminder post, but it's hardly anything any thoughtful person hasn't considered. With respect to watching these videos...literally nobody is wearing their interest in watching them as a badge of honour as you suggested. That's preposterous.
The videos are fascinating in that we're seeing a totally new style of fighting/new weapon class that we've never seen in other wars. It's remarkable. If it's of no interest to you or too morbid to watch, I get it, but it's hardly a personality fault to take interest in them. Ever watch a WWII, Vietnam or Korean War documentary or movie? Ever read a book on war? This is the same thing. I think people can appreciate the horror of it all, but it's the same as watching tornado footage, hurricane footage, floods sweeping away people, avalanches killing people, etc. There is something that piques our curiosity about these things. Maybe it is entertainment. Maybe it's our brains wanting to learn about a new risk we could potentially face.
I think these little drone videos are akin to the first planes used in WWI. What we're seeing - IMO - is a seismic shift in the way wars will operate. Wait until 500 or 5,000 or 50,000 of these little drones are sent on an attack mission in the not-too-distant future. Frankly, it'd be weird to not want to see and learn about these. This is fataing major, dude.
Jambox Bro
I thought you might find this interesting.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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Ruh rohhh...trust the Russians to do this accidentally on purpose.
Oh Hellll no! No way. This has to be accidentally.
The Russians cant cope with Ukraine...the Poles will dummy them.
They absolutely 1000% want nothing to do with Poland let alone the rest of NATO.
I'd buy that that was an accident. If you want any hare-brained conspiracy theories I'd potentially buy that the Poles did it to themselves to give them an excuse to help Ukraine.
I said it many pages back but shy of all of NATO, the last country on Earth Russia wants to tangle with right now is Poland.
You drag the Poles into this war 100% and everyone is home by Christmas.
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It sucks that two people were killed, but if it is proven to be an accident, there is no way they activate Article 5. It's not the first time in this war that missiles have struck inside NATO borders (one may have in fact been Ukrainian). Two deaths are obviously a tragic outcome this time though.
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It sucks that two people were killed, but if it is proven to be an accident, there is no way they activate Article 5. It's not the first time in this war that missiles have struck inside NATO borders (one may have in fact been Ukrainian). Two deaths are obviously a tragic outcome this time though.
I'm sure Russia will pay reparations.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
It sucks that two people were killed, but if it is proven to be an accident, there is no way they activate Article 5. It's not the first time in this war that missiles have struck inside NATO borders (one may have in fact been Ukrainian). Two deaths are obviously a tragic outcome this time though.
Accident or not, Russia has been warned in public and through various back channels that they playing with fire by attacking so close to the borders. Isn't the first time there has been damage (albeit less than this) on the Polish side. Sure it was probably an accident. But there should 100% be a response of some kind, whatever that entails.
Imagine a stray missle striking a US city or some other kind of American base around the world. Claiming an accident wouldn't suffice. Action of some kind would be taken.
Unfortunately I have been waiting for something like this to happen. With how crappy Russian tech is and how terribly crappy their operators are, it was only a matter of time that this happened. What that response is will be decided later. But I will be extremely disgusted if everyone pussies out over this and let's Russia simply continue on without consequence.
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Russia launched strikes against Lviv and Kyiv. Lviv is closest to Przewodow where the missile hit. It's hard to believe that Russia would intentionally bomb a small village like Przewodow, but it's also hard to understand how they could miss Lviv by ~100km. It's been noted that Russian tech and technicians leave a lot to be desired, but 100km? Woof, that's just missing the wall the dart board is hanging on.
Accident or not, Russia has been warned in public and through various back channels that they playing with fire by attacking so close to the borders. Isn't the first time there has been damage (albeit less than this) on the Polish side. Sure it was probably an accident. But there should 100% be a response of some kind, whatever that entails.
Imagine a stray missle striking a US city or some other kind of American base around the world. Claiming an accident wouldn't suffice. Action of some kind would be taken.
Unfortunately I have been waiting for something like this to happen. With how crappy Russian tech is and how terribly crappy their operators are, it was only a matter of time that this happened. What that response is will be decided later. But I will be extremely disgusted if everyone pussies out over this and let's Russia simply continue on without consequence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starseed
There must be a response. The risked consequences in not responding militarily are far too terrible.
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But what is an appropriate response?
Knowing that Poland lobbing round into Kaliningrad or Belarus could light a monster mother####ing fire.
The response needs to be measured and well thought out.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
