Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Or did what politicians should do when they make a mistake. Rethink the position and fix it. We should crap on Ford for the bill but we should give him credit for repealing. Someone like Smith probably doubles down.

This reminds me much more of historic politics where actions led to consequences as opposed to just ignoring the consequence knowing that by election time this won’t be an issue.

You don’t need to give him credit for repealing, you just need to acknowledge it. And saying he played chicken and chickened out is a fine enough way to do it.

Politicians don’t deserve “credit” for reversing a ####-up.

[Fuzz]

You know what's better than putting a bag of ice on your face after you punch yourself in the head? Not punching yourself in the head.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You don’t need to give him credit for repealing, you just need to acknowledge it. And saying he played chicken and chickened out is a fine enough way to do it.

Politicians don’t deserve “credit” for reversing a ####-up.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You know what's better than putting a bag of ice on your face after you punch yourself in the head? Not punching yourself in the head.

This is all true. But GGG is right as well - once he makes the mistake - he can either continue on with it - have kids miss school, have potentially a general strike, etc or you can admit you effed up and get on with business.

Ford is willing to change course so people see him as a sensible guy who won't derail the province by going off on pointless battles about expired vaccine mandates, high five convoy people or come up with snazzy slogans about inflation. Basically he doesn't do grievance politics that trips up other Conservative parties in Canada.

I don't vote for him, but he avoid the 'anyone but conservative' voting that happens Federally.

[PepsiFree]

It’s not about Ford in general, for me at least. I think he’s a good leader and an especially great conservative leader considering how few exist.

It’s just that you don’t get credit for reversing a ####-up you just made. The benefit is that the original ####-up isn’t held against you. That seems like enough.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

This is all true. But GGG is right as well - once he makes the mistake - he can either continue on with it - have kids miss school, have potentially a general strike, etc or you can admit you effed up and get on with business.

Ford is willing to change course so people see him as a sensible guy who won't derail the province by going off on pointless battles about expired vaccine mandates, high five convoy people or come up with snazzy slogans about inflation. Basically he doesn't do grievance politics that trips up other Conservative parties in Canada.

I don't vote for him, but he avoid the 'anyone but conservative' voting that happens Federally.

Sure, it's a good characteristic for a leader, not doubling down on a poor decision. But It's be better to not make the poor decision in the first place. I would think a knowledgeable team around him would have been consulted so it would be interesting to know if he is surrounded by yes men, or if they warned him it was a bad idea and he did it anyway.

[iggy_oi]

Maybe we should just reserve the credit for the people who stuck their necks out to stop him. In theory that should be less divisive.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s just that you don’t get credit for reversing a ####-up you just made. The benefit is that the original ####-up isn’t held against you. That seems like enough.

You do get credit once you've established that you can be counted on to do that sort of thing, though. That's not a trait every politician possesses and it's one that you'd want them all to have, so it's certainly a "point in favour" if you're trying to decide whether to vote for someone.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You do get credit once you've established that you can be counted on to do that sort of thing, though. That's not a trait every politician possesses and it's one that you'd want them all to have, so it's certainly a "point in favour" if you're trying to decide whether to vote for someone.

In general, I disagree.

You shouldn't get credit for being forced to do a 180 on a decision that was stupid to begin with and should never have been made.

I'm not giving anyone credit for that. Kenney and the UCP did that quite often.

You get judged by your decision, and not being forced to walk it back because it was idiocy.

Pepsi was right. "You don’t need to give him credit for repealing, you just need to acknowledge it."

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

As someone with an English literature and philosophy degree, I... kind of agree with Diracspike on this. The aim should be to reduce the cost of attending post-secondary, not subsidizing it, and with a preference for trades.

Let's look at the trolley-problem using self-driving cars:

Imagine you have a full self-driving car. That self-driving is going along with other self-driving cars on a road. Suddenly, a child runs into the road. The self-driving car doesn't have time to stop and it has to make a choice of whether to swerve and collide with another vehicle next to it, that will likely cause a chain-reaction of other collisions and likely multiple injuries and possible fatalities...or stay the course and hit the child.

Do you want the Engineers that are designing that car to program the solution? I've worked with Engineers for 25 years and both of my parents were Engineers. While they are great at Engineering I wouldn't want them being the one's to program that decision in the car.

STEM is important and we should probably encourage more kids to get into it, but there should be room for philosophy and Eng Lit students too not that you were arguing for that.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

You do get credit once you've established that you can be counted on to do that sort of thing, though. That's not a trait every politician possesses and it's one that you'd want them all to have, so it's certainly a "point in favour" if you're trying to decide whether to vote for someone.

Yeah, it'd be ideal if we had perfect politicians who never make mistakes. Those probably exist. But they're all probably in Norway.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sure, it's a good characteristic for a leader, not doubling down on a poor decision. But It's be better to not make the poor decision in the first place. I would think a knowledgeable team around him would have been consulted so it would be interesting to know if he is surrounded by yes men, or if they warned him it was a bad idea and he did it anyway.

Maybe my standards are too low but I think whenever a politician makes a decision against their ideology we should be recognizing it.

I think the ability to get new information, reassess your position, and change is actually more important than having the right position in the first place.

This is because all politicians will make bad policies, all ideologies have significant flaws, all policies have unintended consequences so there is no politician (or person) that will just not make poor decisions. So the most important skill becomes evaluating the affect of decisions, recognizing poor decisions, and changing course.

I agree it would be interesting to know how this decision was arrived at and if the goal was they knew their would be blow back and thought they could skate through or if they thought this was no big deal and didn’t consider consequences. Neither is a good look.

[calculoso]

No credit from me yet though. Recalls government to have an emergency 5 am to pass the bill with his MPPs jeering at the education workers while doing it, now “makes a commitment to repeal” but won’t do it until government is back in a week. No urgency, nothing so far but a commitment, and I wonder if it will actually happen.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Do you want the Engineers that are designing that car to program the solution? I've worked with Engineers for 25 years and both of my parents were Engineers. While they are great at Engineering I wouldn't want them being the one's to program that decision in the car.

You didn't actually solve the problem, though. I don't want an English Lit major to program that decision into the car, either. Frankly there is no good solution to that, but it's realistically just going to be a political problem that's dealt with through regulation, just as risks are allocated in every industry subject to government regulation.

Anyway how did this conversation get focused on engineers? No one said we should just be producing engineers, or whether engineers should be making all the important decisions. There will still be plenty of people taking arts courses regardless of whether this policy is enacted. It's just a question of tax policy and where those dollars are best spent.

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

In general, I disagree.

You shouldn't get credit for being forced to do a 180 on a decision that was stupid to begin with and should never have been made.

Read my post again. I didn't say you get credit for doing the 180. I said you get credit for being the sort of person who is going to consider whether a policy choice was a mistake and reverse course, rather than trying to justify your error and act like it wasn't a mistake. If you assume that whoever we elect, they're going to make at least some decisions that don't work out as planned, I want my politician to fall into the "is willing to reverse course" category.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I know, and you've never come off as hardcore liberal, ever. Always right of centre, imo.

Either he still has Disney+ or he doesn't.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Either he still has Disney+ or he doesn't.

Man, I know people that gave up Disney because of some beef from the far right. I didn't pay much attention, but something to do with some actress or something?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Man, I know people that gave up Disney because of some beef from the far right. I didn't pay much attention, but something to do with some actress or something?

Chrystia Freeland once again put her foot in her mouth. I'm actually glad that Justin is our PM if she is the alternative.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chrystia-f...195659519.html

[Fuzzy14]

Or did what politicians should do when they make a mistake. Rethink the position and fix it. We should crap on Ford for the bill but we should give him credit for repealing. Someone like Smith probably doubles down.

I think he suffered a similar response to that suffered by Gondek when she killed the arena deal. When your opponents complain, it's music to your ears, but when your backers start calling asking questions about something you've done, the song isn't quite so sweet.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Chrystia Freeland once again put her foot in her mouth. I'm actually glad that Justin is our PM if she is the alternative.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chrystia-f...195659519.html

This is such a non-issue though. She wasn't talking about household budgets, she was talking about the government budget and basically saying that with the free spending of the past few years they should do some trimming of these more frivolous expenditures.

[peter12]

God, get over it Canadians.

[Fuzz]

Justin Trudeau is swinging by the "werkroom" on an upcoming spinoff of Canada's Drag Race.


Producers of the drag queen competition series say the prime minister will make a special appearance on Canada's Drag Race: Canada vs. the World.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainmen...644859?cmp=rss

Sometimes I think Justin does stuff just to troll Rebel Media and their supporters.