[Signing] Bruins sign Mitchell Miller UPDATE: Rescinded

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by jammies

We can call mentioning Trudeau in a completely unrelated thread "Yoho's Law". "Sorry, this thread isn't going anywhere now due to Yoho's Law."

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

mentioning off topic politics on the FoI board should be a perma ban with no exceptions.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

And here you go with the cyber bullying again

Vehemently disagreeing with someone is not cyberbullying. It's also not cyberbullying if someone disagrees with you multiple times, or multiple people disagree with you.

Other things that do not constitute cyberbullying include passive-aggressive tone and pointing out repeated instances of poorly thought-out argumentation. People are also allowed to find and describe opinions as repugnant, incoherent, or unintelligent without that being cyberbullying.

To be defined as cyberbullying, there must be threats or intimidation. Demonstrate where these have occurred, and you'll be taken seriously. Otherwise please stop spamming everyone with your specious and tiresome accusations.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by jammies

To be defined as cyberbullying, there must be threats or intimidation.

does attempting to set up a no holds barred cage match against people arguing with you on the forum count?

[Yeah_Baby]

I don't think anyone is entitled to a second a chance. In many ways I think second changes are a result of restorative action/restorative justice by the perpetuator to make amends. And even if the perpetuator does this, they're still not entitled to forgiveness for those they victimized.

just my thoughts.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

I keep seeing people talk about ruining Miller's life, and how he should get a second chance etc etc. But no one talking about how the victim has been affected by this. I guarantee he's ruined for life by this. He'll never be able to fully trust anyone who claims to be his friend, he'll never be able to look at a candy and not taste piss in his mouth. He's been affected for life. I have already previously stated how bullying of this extreme level will sit with a person right thru adulthood and how this poor kid will never ever be whole again, from personal experience, so I won't go into that again. I just find it really enraging to see all the worry about his attacker, and how his life will go, with little to no concern about the victim and how his life is already ruined.

You have to think he was robbed of a proper education. Having to live with constant bullying on top of an existing learning disability must have been tough. And those are the years that build the foundation for future learning. If his victim is able to rise above all that and excel in spite of it all, I'd be astonished and happy.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Just to be clear the reason I posted that screenshot was to show that both side's families of course are going to be biased in this situation.

I still think that if Miller actually did the things his agent said he was doing then this contract shouldn't be an issue, people should be allowed to change and evolve from mistakes they make when they are 13/14.

But if he's saying he's doing those things, and then not actually doing them...then that's on him as a 19 year old and not taking the actual steps needed to try to improve and change.

The Boston best reporter is on the Marek show right now saying that the taunts and intimidation lasted at least until both parties were 18.

Seems like some think this was a onetime thing that happened when these kids were 14. It was years of torment with no actual remorse being shown. Miller lost his dream because of his horrible actions and is only trying to rehabilitate his image to save his dream. I don’t see it happening but hopefully losing this dream will make him change and become a true champion for anti-bullying.

Feels like anyone that supports the second chance narrative paint the issue like it was a one off from 6-7 years ago which has been confirmed to be false

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

One strike? Have you paid attention to the story? This was years of physical and mental abuse and even after the urinal incident Miller followed that up with intimidation. Literally psychotic behavior.

The only thing that has been proven is the revolting incident involving the pushpop.

Everything else is nothing more than the accusations of the victim's mother. A woman who has lied about not receiving an apology when the court has indicated that one was provided and who threatened to destroy her kid's soccer coach through the press when he wouldn't play her kid enough. And her husband later choked said coach on the field in front of her kid's team

It's unfortunate that the lazy media just swallows the stories of a vengeful woman hook line and sinker and treats them as fact.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

The magistrate said this

cannon7: FAKE NEWS

Quote confirmed to be real

cannon7: They're fault for not assuming I would call it fake news!

Ironically, The Athletic has sourced the quote (from the Toledo Blade) but the Toledo Blade just posted it as fact without source yet it's the Toledo Blade you give credit too lol.

The simple fact is the magistrate said it, The Athletic correctly reported on the quote, you're still butthurt. And this is all second fiddle to the real reason you wanted the quote to be unverified which was you attacking the mother for no good reason.

Also my Google had it easy to find the source using just the quote:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22B...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Ok, if you use the exact terms that another poster found, yes, you'll find it. I tried to find the quote without the exact quote or even the magistrate's name and failed to do so yesterday. Maybe you don't believe me. I don't care. I was trying to verify the claim. Maybe you find fault in that. That is your problem.

Never called it fake news. Never said it was untrue. Did point out that every article I was reading was attributing this claim to one person and it wasn't the magistrate. If that is "attacking" then I don't know what to tell you. I didn't say this woman was a bad person. In fact if you read the 2020 thread, I point out that this woman has done a lot of good, including adopting children in need. The only criticism of her I've made in this thread is that she is giving interviews while at the same time claiming that this coverage is making her son relive this trauma. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I digress.

I also posted links to a story where she and her husband assaulted a soccer coach the same year as the Miller incident, but I did not offer my opinion, only offered it as context. I believe I did say that people make mistakes, even parents of a child that was bullied. I didn't say they were bad people. We live in an imperfect world.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Boston best reporter is on the Marek show right now saying that the taunts and intimidation lasted at least until both parties were 18.

Seems like some think this was a onetime thing that happened when these kids were 14. It was years of torment with no actual remorse being shown. Miller lost his dream because of his horrible actions and is only trying to rehabilitate his image to save his dream. I don’t see it happening but hopefully losing this dream will make him change and become a true champion for anti-bullying.

Feels like anyone that supports the second chance narrative paint the issue like it was a one off from 6-7 years ago which has been confirmed to be false

I didn't think it was a one off - previous reports made it seem like it lasted between grade 2 and grade 8.

But yeah of course if he was still doing it after the court case until he was 18 then that's a bit of a different story too.

In the end the real problem here seems to be Miller's parents and they are the ones that raised this kid to be so hateful from such a young age, and then clearly didn't seem to reprimand him or take any issue with it. Honestly parents who teach/allow their kids to be racist or hateful deserve to be in jail.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Apparently I should’ve added the Athletic.

I don’t often quote my own posts for prosperity, but it’s pretty comical that every one of the posters who loudly defended the racist bully has now blamed someone else either for causing them to make a mistake or being what’s ACTUALLY wrong with society/the board/the mob/etc. Every post is some straw man about how “I still believe in second chances, unlike the real villains here.”

Very little changed from Friday to Monday. It seems Miller’s defenders are in fact just like him in one specific way: they don’t seem to understand how they were wrong and it’s hard to tell if they ever will.

The defenders of second chances aren't perfect like you, PepsiFree.

We know you feel virtuous in your condemnation, but unlike you, we recognize the error in your ways and leave room in our hearts to forgive. Someday you may come around.

Edit: And it is posterity, not prosperity.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The comments about right wingers is confusing. How would one use this discussion to identify political allegiances?
I'm generally a centralist though I am certainly left on social issues and lean a little right on fiscal ones.

But why are we assuming what people's political leanings are on the basis of this conversation?

The best thread of outing rightwingers was the Jets Arena and their vaccine mandate. lol. like off the wall crap!

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

The only thing that has been proven is the revolting incident involving the pushpop.

Everything else is nothing more than the accusations of the victim's mother. A woman who has lied about not receiving an apology when the court has indicated that one was provided and who threatened to destroy her kid's soccer coach through the press when he wouldn't play her kid enough. And her husband later choked said coach on the field in front of her kid's team

It's unfortunate that the lazy media just swallows the stories of a vengeful woman hook line and sinker and treats them as fact.

As if that singular incident weren't enough, here are excerpts from a few articles, the first being the original 2020 Athletic article:

Miller provided a copy of his apology to each of the 31 NHL teams with his letter earlier this year.

One problem: Meyer-Crothers said the family has never received an apology from Miller, handwritten or otherwise.

“You would think if he were truly remorseful, that the apology would be sent to the person whose life he affected, not just the NHL teams,” Meyer-Crothers said. “We never received it. Never saw it.”

Why, when it has been made clear that the victim and their family were willing to forgive the other abuser based on their actions and remorse, would they make this up just to ruin another kid?

And from the original Arizona Republic article:

Meyer-Crothers, also 18 and who now lives in Detroit, said Miller had taunted him for years, constantly calling him "brownie" and the "N-word," while repeatedly hitting him while growing up in the Toledo suburb. Other students at their junior high confirmed to police that Miller repeatedly used the "N-word" in referring to Meyer-Crothers.

"He pretended to be my friend and made me do things I didn't want to do," Meyer-Crothers said in a phone interview. "In junior high, I got beat up by him. … Everyone thinks he's so cool that he gets to go to the NHL, but I don't see how someone can be cool when you pick on someone and bully someone your entire life."

That's straight from the victim's mouth, as well as other students who had witnessed the ongoing abuse.

It continues:

Joni Meyer-Crothers said the other boy broke down in tears while personally apologizing to her son, yet Miller has never personally apologized, she said, other than the court-mandated letter.

The Coyotes sent The Republic a copy of the letter that Miller claimed to have given to the victim and his family. The family said on Friday they never received the letter.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...go/3735555001/

Sure looks like she acknowledges the court-mandated "apology" and she is implying that it had the sincerity of a grocery list. Again, not sure what justification you have claiming she's lying to have never received it. The court claiming they sent it doesn't mean the family got it.

It's curious why you're focusing on her credibility while Miller and his agent have recently made official statements they worked or spoke with particular groups when that, in fact, proved to be false. No room for scrutiny there?

I have no idea why particular posters have such an allergy when it comes to reading articles.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I don't think anyone is entitled to a second a chance. In many ways I think second changes are a result of restorative action/restorative justice by the perpetuator to make amends. And even if the perpetuator does this, they're still not entitled to forgiveness for those they victimized.

just my thoughts.

I don't think that anyone is entitled to forgiveness. Nor have I gotten that impression from other posters defending a second chance. I have repeatedly argued that if Miller is repentant and is trying to make amends for his past transgressions then I support that and don't think he should be perpetually punished. I would support the same of my own worst enemy. However, if he is not repentant, then he has a difficult path ahead. To forgive is a moral virtue , as are justice and patience. I am willing to be patient. It is disappointing if this young man hasn't learned anything in the past two years, but that does not mean he will never learn.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I don't think that anyone is entitled to forgiveness. Nor have I gotten that impression from other posters defending a second chance. I have repeatedly argued that if Miller is repentant and is trying to make amends for his past transgressions then I support that and don't think he should be perpetually punished. I would support the same of my own worst enemy. However, if he is not repentant, then he has a difficult path ahead. To forgive is a moral virtue , as are justice and patience. I am willing to be patient. It is disappointing if this young man hasn't learned anything in the past two years, but that does not mean he will never learn.

Yeah, that's more or less where I'm at. I don't think who people are is defined by either the worst thing they've done, or the best thing they've done. I don't think there are good or bad people, as much as good or bad behavior/actions.

It's what folks do once a transgression has been made, what they do in the in-between space that matters. I Agree that Miller hasn't seemed to do any sort of restorative action.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Cam Neely comes out of this looking really really bad.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1589628391137095680

[calumniate]

Haha, buck stops at someone lower than Neely. That's ugly

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1589628510955778048

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The defenders of second chances aren't perfect like you, PepsiFree.

We know you feel virtuous in your condemnation, but unlike you, we recognize the error in your ways and leave room in our hearts to forgive. Someday you may come around.

Edit: And it is posterity, not prosperity.

For someone who is so comfortable with not being perfect you are sure spending a lot of effort blaming others for why you aren’t and explaining away why you’re actually the virtuous one despite your imperfections.

If you think this is compelling and will change the narrative for you, more power to you though. But I think anyone with half a mind of their own reading the thread knows it was never about second chances, but whether those second chances had been earned and if they should include winning the lottery.

Maybe next post you can explain how you were defending second chances by trying to cast doubt on the mother. I’m sure that was from the heart, too.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

kids don't usually grasp the extent of the harm they inflict at that age and bullying is often a way kids vent because of dysfunctional relationships and environment in their own home . If there is victimizing at home they might replicate that in the school yard .. now that's not to say it isn't still wrong but it means these kids need some educating to comprehend why it's poor behaviour and the effect it has on the victim

most people by adulthood come to understand the right or wrongness of their actions and many may show remorse for it . I'd say its unfair to drag a not yet developed child oved the coals for actions that they dont undrstand the implications of , but once they are adults If they still don't have the wherewithal to understand why they were poor decisions and repeat said behavior then there is an issue

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

https://twitter.com/user/status/1589628510955778048

I would start by asking Neely why he didn't confirm with his leadership team that the family had been consulted.
Easy question to ask. Either he knew they didn't or he failed to ask the question.
Buck stops with Neely.