Juuso Valimaki: "I really enjoy hockey again"

[TheScorpion]

Ultimately, I think Juuso needed to hear another voice. He's doing well in AZ. Don't think it's a given he would've succeeded here.

He needed a change of scenery. Now the Flames need to figure out a solution for their defensive woes. More a coincidence than a correlation.

[Jay Random]

I don't think it's really a given that he's succeeding there. On a team that bad, having a good plus-minus often means you're being sheltered.

As for the Flames' defensive woes, that has relatively little to do with the Flames' defencemen. The whole team isn't playing sound hockey without the puck.

Sometimes I wish the players on the blue line weren't called defencemen. Some fans, and even some media people, talk as if defensive play was entirely the defencemen's job, and if a team is giving up too many goals, it must have bad players at that position.

***BORING OLD-TIMEY STORY ALERT***

In the early days of hockey, the two players who lined up closest to the goalie were called ‘point’ and ‘cover point’. Maybe if we went back to those names, more people would remember that defensive play is a whole-team job.

[Nelson]

I’m sad because of how things ended with Valimaki and the Flames. Valimaki was so promising at one point. Then injuries happened. Valimaki also did not fit with Sutter. I remember the interview Valimaki gave on 960 when Valimaki talked about Sutter’s coaching style. Valimaki said something like, “He will tell you, to your face, exactly what he thinks.” The context made it clear that Sutter had been extremely blunt with Valimaki about Valimaki’s shortcomings. I just don’t think Valimaki was someone who could thrive under that kind of pressure. I, for one, hope Jusso thrives in Arizona where there is no pressure right now at all.

[the-rasta-masta]

Valimaki was outpeformed. From my viewings, before and after injury, he was never going to be more than a tweener or a 6-7th defenseman, probably on a bad team. He is not doing anything more than an adequate Arizona bottom pairing defenseman would.

[TheScorpion]

He kinda is, though.

(Also, you thought he would never be more than a tweener before his injury? What were you watching? He looked great.)

https://twitter.com/user/status/1589386109150076928

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

He kinda is, though.

(Also, you thought he would never be more than a tweener before his injury? What were you watching? He looked great.)

https://twitter.com/user/status/1589386109150076928

Zadorov-Stone being so high also shows usage can be a big factor in these rankings

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

He kinda is, though.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1589386109150076928

As one of the replies to that tweet pointed out, those numbers do not take into account quality of competition. And at this time of the season, all the sample sizes are small.

Note that Zadorov-Stone is #6 on the list, three quarters of a goal per game ahead of Moser-Valimaki. Does that mean either Zadorov or Stone is a great shutdown defenceman? Prior history suggests not.

[TheScorpion]

Usage is absolutely a big factor. I don't think anyone looks at these pairings and sees the 20 best ones in the NHL. I was primarily taking aim at the assertion that Valimaki is doing something that basically anyone else could do in Arizona. Which, to this point, is not accurate.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Usage is absolutely a big factor. I don't think anyone looks at these pairings and sees the 20 best ones in the NHL. I was primarily taking aim at the assertion that Valimaki is doing something that basically anyone else could do in Arizona. Which, to this point, is not accurate.

It is accurate if what Valimaki is doing can be described as ‘playing easy minutes against third and fourth lines’. Any NHLer can do that without getting burned too badly. It's against top forwards that one's stats suffer.

I don't know whether that's the case or not. That's why I'd like to see data on quality of competition.

[TheScorpion]

Anecdotally, the guys Tourigny has been using in more sheltered roles have been Mayo, Nemeth, and Brown. But I don't have access to the data on that yet.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Ultimately, I think Juuso needed to hear another voice. He's doing well in AZ. Don't think it's a given he would've succeeded here.

He needed a change of scenery. Now the Flames need to figure out a solution for their defensive woes. More a coincidence than a correlation.

I sure wish we weren't a team that players need a change of scenery from to flourish... (Bennett, valimaki)

maybe the org needs to ask itself what adjustments it can make in its approach so as to not stall the development of some of these high picks and /or create a rift between the team and player

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I sure wish we weren't a team that players need a change of scenery from to flourish... (Bennett, valimaki)

It would be nicer if we were a team that players need a change of scenery TO to flourish. (Tanev, Lindholm)

[TheScorpion]

Tanev doesn't really apply because he was this good (or better) at his peak in Vancouver.

[dino7c]

Zadorov then

two teams quit on him and he is miles better than Vali
how about Vladar?

Plenty of Flames examples of players who are far better now than with their previous teams

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Tanev doesn't really apply because he was this good (or better) at his peak in Vancouver.

Word on Tanev in Vancouver was that he was injury-prone and contributed next to no offence. That's definitely changed.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

phillips will be another outgoing one as some other team that doesnt get hung up on the size factor will benefit from all our development work

[TheScorpion]

My fear is we're starting to see injury-prone Tanev again. He was exceptionally good defensively in Vancouver, though — one of the very best shutdown guys in the league.

[jayswin]

Yeah, Tanev was a quality defensemen that we signed.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yeah, Tanev was a quality defensemen that we signed.

already good , just underappreciated because it was Vancouver, and canuck people are overly critical so you wouldn't know based on chatter around the team that he was actually quite good there

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Zadorov then

two teams quit on him and he is miles better than Vali
how about Vladar?

Plenty of Flames examples of players who are far better now than with their previous teams

Gudbranson - terrible before he got here, good during his time here, terrible since he left.