Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[D as in David]

I can't fault someone for leaving Alberta if the UCP win in the next general election. Some posters here have argued that it would only be for four years. If the UCP can win with as bat #### crazy leader as Smith at the helm, what is the likelihood that they wouldn't get re-elected in the next election? In a province which has only not voted conservative once in 50+ years? Is the demographic of the province likely to swing to the left under a UCP government over that time period or is it more likely that progressive voters will leave the province while attracting more conservatives?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Have not seen any evidence that the BC pay increase will actually improve patient access to healthcare (I have not looked at the details so stand to be corrected). The argument could be made that if doctors no longer need to push through as many patients as possible in order for the billing to cover their costs they might actually see fewer patients than they do now. Better care, but for fewer people. Unless this entices more doctors to actually locate to BC it may not do much to resolve the patient access issue. Good for the doctors however, this seems like a way better pay for service model than other provinces are using.

It's designed to keep their current doctors and attract new doctors and it's going to work. You combine that with a nice area of the country to live and you'll get more people. On top of having a government that's willing to work with doctors or even other HCW's is attractive as well.

I don't think BC needed to even offer anywhere near what they just did to attract more doctors.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

It's designed to keep their current doctors and attract new doctors and it's going to work. You combine that with a nice area of the country to live and you'll get more people. On top of having a government that's willing to work with doctors or even other HCW's is attractive as well.

I don't think BC needed to even offer anywhere near what they just did to attract more doctors.

I don't necessarily disagree it may attract more doctors, I'm just undecided as to how much this will increase patient access. If I was an MD I'd consider it too, why would you not if you could guarantee your pay and see fewer patients (spend more time with the ones you do see). So it probably is a wash at the end of the day - more doctors seeing fewer patients per day = same access as before.

Anyway, this is OT to Alberta politics so I'll stop here.

[Ozy_Flame]

So Livingston-McLeod MLA Roger Reid is stepping down, and the path is now clear for would looks like a right-wing nutbar to take the UCP nomination. Check out this thread.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1584642311400882176

This is surely a litmus test for how the party wants to move forward with their candidates and whether complacency rues the day or if people actually care. Or perhaps, if this is what people really want in some parts of Alberta.

Kevin Van Tighem is the NDP candidate. It would surely be hilarious if Smith's old stomping grounds went orange (which is almost assuredly not going to happen).

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think that is anything close to take-home though? I could be wrong, but I thought from that they had to pay for their family practice, so things like rent, admin assistant, cleaning, supplies, literally everything that allows them to work...but maybe I've got that wrong.

I am sure it’s not all take-home, but the suggestion that they’d be struggling is kind of absurd. There are a lot of people in BC that are not making doctors’ salaries that are doing all right for themselves.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

As a public system we should have a minimum level of care the state provides for people at no additional cost than taxation. We should be having a robust debate on where that point is. 10 hrs for non-life threatening urgent care after hours is a reasonable standard for government to provide.

If you want to have a robust debate that’s all well and good but so far all you’ve done is pick an arbitrary number and stated that it’s acceptable based on the fact that it wasn’t a life or death situation. By that logic a 20 hour wait time would also be acceptable.

And as you reply you should have considered what length of time you would like to wait and the level of taxation required to support your requirements in all areas of the health system.

The shortest possible wait times are what we should be aiming for, which I’d argue is not 10 hours. While a number of factors can impact wait times there’s certainly more that can be done to shorten them than just accepting the status quo and hoping that it’ll just get better.

[Knut]

Anecdotally, more and more people I talk to are saying they will vote for Notley this time around. Many of them never voted anything by Conservative their entire lives.

Losing access to care. Feeling that the UCP does not represent them anymore etc.

With Notley they feel there is at least some stability.

I am voting NDP for the first time in my life too. The health care system needs to be boosted. Education needs to stop being Americanized. I wont like a lot of what they do but I value Education and Health Care first and foremost. We can not let those things erode.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

If you want to have a robust debate that’s all well and good but so far all you’ve done is pick an arbitrary number and stated that it’s acceptable based on the fact that it wasn’t a life or death situation. By that logic a 20 hour wait time would also be acceptable.

The shortest possible wait times are what we should be aiming for, which I’d argue is not 10 hours. While a number of factors can impact wait times there’s certainly more that can be done to shorten them than just accepting the status quo and hoping that it’ll just get better.

My thought on 10 hrs being okay was if you were going somewhere after walk-in and minor emerg are closed you probably should have seen someone that night. So 8-12hr range seems okay. If it were longer than that other services would be able to treat you at that point.

I agree shortest possible should be the goal within a given funding framework. 0 wait certainly is possible with unlimited funds. But I assume you aren’t advocating for 0 wait times. So really the discussion between my 10 hrs and you at some other number is one of degree. We both likely agree that funding limits and wait times are required.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

So Livingston-McLeod MLA Roger Reid is stepping down, and the path is now clear for would looks like a right-wing nutbar to take the UCP nomination. Check out this thread.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1584642311400882176

This is surely a litmus test for how the party wants to move forward with their candidates and whether complacency rues the day or if people actually care. Or perhaps, if this is what people really want in some parts of Alberta.

Kevin Van Tighem is the NDP candidate. It would surely be hilarious if Smith's old stomping grounds went orange (which is almost assuredly not going to happen).

Man, that lady is straight up nuts. In the past, in a rational world, a quick scroll throguh her twitter feed would instantly disqualify her from public office. Now? Nobody cares. Man, it's so painful to watch this happen to our country.

She's a Putin sympathizer, probably because her media literacy is so low and she's bought what they were selling.

Spoiler!

She retweeted this:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1501950262126137354

And says stuff like this:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1504552647306592266

https://twitter.com/user/status/1504653779785854976

Her whole feed is just gross misinformation and threats to Liberals and the NDP. This is the UCP you will be voting for.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

My thought on 10 hrs being okay was if you were going somewhere after walk-in and minor emerg are closed you probably should have seen someone that night. So 8-12hr range seems okay. If it were longer than that other services would be able to treat you at that point.

I agree shortest possible should be the goal within a given funding framework. 0 wait certainly is possible with unlimited funds. But I assume you aren’t advocating for 0 wait times. So really the discussion between my 10 hrs and you at some other number is one of degree. We both likely agree that funding limits and wait times are required.

Honestly, there is more to the healthcare discussion than just "add money" and that's part of my frustration. There's an enormous amount of bureaucracy and how healthcare is delivered that could be streamlined. I realize its a gargantuan job to try to fix, but it's pretty damn important!

I just feel like the plain addition of funds to hire more people is a band-aid and a lazy policy. I would prefer that to be in conjunction with a legitimate plan to get the system reformed. I'm an outsider, and have no idea on some of those things, but experiencing the system as a user or adjacent to users for some of this and you can see the bottlenecks and pure stupidity. Surely someone who knows about these things could pull the system apart and reconfigure it with some sanity.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Her whole feed is just gross misinformation and threats to Liberals and the NDP. This is the UCP you will be voting for.

Isn't that kind of misleading? Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it says she's submitted her nomination papers, not that she's going to be the candidate for MLA for that riding. Can't basically anyone submit nomination papers?

[DFO]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Her whole feed is just gross misinformation and threats to Liberals and the NDP. This is the UCP you will be voting for.

It really doesn’t matter. It’ll be rationalized as her only being one member of the correct team. God forbid anyone lets the evil NDP get in. Who needs a centrist party right?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Slava

Honestly, there is more to the healthcare discussion than just "add money" and that's part of my frustration. There's an enormous amount of bureaucracy and how healthcare is delivered that could be streamlined. I realize its a gargantuan job to try to fix, but it's pretty damn important!

I just feel like the plain addition of funds to hire more people is a band-aid and a lazy policy. I would prefer that to be in conjunction with a legitimate plan to get the system reformed. I'm an outsider, and have no idea on some of those things, but experiencing the system as a user or adjacent to users for some of this and you can see the bottlenecks and pure stupidity. Surely someone who knows about these things could pull the system apart and reconfigure it with some sanity.

The system unfortunately needs a band-aid solution right now. It is to the point that it is going to start costing a bunch of lives.

Long term fixes are great too. Short term it needs a boost two years ago.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Isn't that kind of misleading? Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it says she's submitted her nomination papers, not that she's going to be the candidate for MLA for that riding. Can't basically anyone submit nomination papers?

That's just me accepting the entire system has failed, and this is the inevitable outcome. In the video tweet Ozy linked, she talks about the new board and "grassroots" which is really just code for nutty antivaxers taking over the party. I mean, sure, ya, maybe the people who reject facts and commons sense may see through her? I highly doubt it. Fell free to tell me to eat some crow if she doesn't get in. I'll be happy for that outcome. Unless it is someone even nuttier.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Knut

Anecdotally, more and more people I talk to are saying they will vote for Notley this time around. Many of them never voted anything by Conservative their entire lives.

Losing access to care. Feeling that the UCP does not represent them anymore etc.

With Notley they feel there is at least some stability.

I am voting NDP for the first time in my life too. The health care system needs to be boosted. Education needs to stop being Americanized. I wont like a lot of what they do but I value Education and Health Care first and foremost. We can not let those things erode.

What I find interesting is there are a number of large companies entering the renewables and clean fuels space, making huge investments. Suncor, Enbridge, TC, etc. The UCP is making policies that would actively make those projects harder to get through, or make them less economic. A lot of the same things that they complain about Trudeau doing for Oil and Gas. It boggles my mind.

I'm your typical white-collar worker in the energy industry, but have older parents, young kids in/about to enter school, and family members with complex medical needs. In no way does degrading the system in place under the guise of "choice" benefit me, even if it saves 2-3 points off my income taxes, whether it's additional costs, the increased stress of having to manage and advocate for care and services, etc. It's not good for most people whatsoever.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Knut

Anecdotally, more and more people I talk to are saying they will vote for Notley this time around. Many of them never voted anything by Conservative their entire lives.

Losing access to care. Feeling that the UCP does not represent them anymore etc.

With Notley they feel there is at least some stability.

I am voting NDP for the first time in my life too. The health care system needs to be boosted. Education needs to stop being Americanized. I wont like a lot of what they do but I value Education and Health Care first and foremost. We can not let those things erode.

This is exactly me and my inner circle. I am 70+ and cannot stand what the Conservative party has become...and having Smith at the helm is my worst nightmare.

Also, I have no use for the ranking system they use to elect their leaders. I know it is used by most parties but what we are getting for Conservative parties, both federally and provincially, are leaders who everybody sort of likes a little bit but who nobody really likes at all.

It started when Jim Dinning was running for the leadership...someone who in my opinion who would have made a great Premier...but who got in...good old Ed Stelmach...a nice enough man but not someone who made a good Premier. Then we got Alison Redford...worse than Stelmach...and then Prentice who had the audacity to say, "look in the mirror", and who got booted out for those comments.

And then Kenney, who tried to govern by appeasing everyone in the province, and who said after he resigned, that he should have governed according to what was the best option for the province...too late.

And now Smith...where does one begin? Worst option ever.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by calf

What I find interesting is there are a number of large companies entering the renewables and clean fuels space, making huge investments. Suncor, Enbridge, TC, etc. The UCP is making policies that would actively make those projects harder to get through, or make them less economic. A lot of the same things that they complain about Trudeau doing for Oil and Gas. It boggles my mind.

I'm your typical white-collar worker in the energy industry, but have older parents, young kids in/about to enter school, and family members with complex medical needs. In no way does degrading the system in place under the guise of "choice" benefit me, even if it saves 2-3 points off my income taxes, whether it's additional costs, the increased stress of having to manage and advocate for care and services, etc. It's not good for most people whatsoever.

While Conservative at all levels rage against climate change measures, industry is moving ahead like they always do. Our provincial government should just shut up.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by redforever

And then Kenney, who tried to govern by appeasing everyone in the province, and who said after he resigned, that he should have governed according to what was the best option for the province...too late.

And now Smith...where does one begin? Worst option ever.

From everything I've read, heard or seen from Jason Kenney, he governed according to whatever was the best option for Jason Kenney was the best option for the province.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's just me accepting the entire system has failed, and this is the inevitable outcome. In the video tweet Ozy linked, she talks about the new board and "grassroots" which is really just code for nutty antivaxers taking over the party. I mean, sure, ya, maybe the people who reject facts and commons sense may see through her? I highly doubt it. Fell free to tell me to eat some crow if she doesn't get in. I'll be happy for that outcome. Unless it is someone even nuttier.

We may see, as well, people like her inadvertently acting as cover for candidates who are still pretty extreme by historical standards but don't act as kooky as this.

Though that's actually what I thought was going to happen with Smith and Jean... that Smith would essentially be the cover that courts the extreme vote, gets them involved, but doesn't get the votes to actually make it to the final ballot and all her votes go to the not-quite-as-extreme candidate and make them look like a more acceptable compromise.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by octothorp

We may see, as well, people like her inadvertently acting as cover for candidates who are still pretty extreme by historical standards but don't act as kooky as this.

Though that's actually what I thought was going to happen with Smith and Jean... that Smith would essentially be the cover that courts the extreme vote, gets them involved, but doesn't get the votes to actually make it to the final ballot and all her votes go to the not-quite-as-extreme candidate and make them look like a more acceptable compromise.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1587558772754767873

Interesting hypothesis. I think we'll see a lot more moderate Conservative abandoning the UCP, replaced by morons who's brains barely function. I wonder just how crazy they will go in Calgary, or if they'll recognize they need to try for a few seats.

I told my MLA he should step down before he gets associated with the crazy, but I didn't get a response this time.