NHL Team Valuations

[curves2000]

A lot of sports teams may not turn an actual annual profit on an annualized basis and some owners are ok with that, the valuations continue to go up in significant values.

These are assets that very rarely are available for purchase to even the wealthiest and most powerful people are highly sought after when they do. These owners will continue to deal with marginal losses on the P&L line if the valuations go up. It's when certain teams that burn through significant cash that owners might want to look at their investments.

As for why the Oilers probably have much higher revenue than the Flames? Arena related and the sheer fact that the Oilers fan base does show a ton of financial support even during the worst of times. I can't count how many times I have gone up to Edmonton for a late season Flames game and struggled to find tickets that are somewhat reasonable and the Oilers are in last place. That fan base does show their love for their team with their wallet far above what I, and many other Flames fan's may do in similar scenarios to be honest.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

to me the valuation is somewhat useless, unless the owners are trying to sell.

flames 2021-22 revenue - $174m
Oilers 2021-22 revenue - $250m

that seems really surprising. i woner how accurate these figures are.

Here come the $55 combos at the Dome.

[Enoch Root]

You have to be careful comparing the numbers between teams as they are not necessarily apples to apples - certain sources of revenue may be included for one team but not another

Comparing Edmonton to Calgary, for example, it is hard to imagine that Edmonton's revenues are 47% higher than Calgary's - it seems likely that something isn't being included in the Flames' numbers that is being included up north.

[Johnny Makarov]

Like stocks you only make money when you sell....

so lets go fund me for the new arena!

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

No one's asking you to feel sorry for them. It's called looking at the data and trying to understand the bigger picture. The data presented is misleading and incomplete. Valuations means SFA.

The piece also shows revenue and isn't misleading. It will never show profit as they are private companies. While I'm sure they might lose money in the odd bad year they also make money in good years. Playoffs are important for that reason. And as the article alludes to, pro sports teams are trophies for billionaires with many more billionaires than teams. Not exactly a losing situation.

[White Out 403]

I think there's some people here who don't understand how rich people use a high valuation property to borrow money for cheap to fund their investments and further enrich themselves.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think the better question to ask is not where the value is today, but where it will be projected to be ten years from now if they don't have an arena to play. This could be incentive for the ownership group to get it done, but it could also be incentive to sell if they don't think it will get done and want to sell high. I have no idea where the ownership group stands or how much will they have to keep fighting.

19th overall isn't terrible, but it also isn't great (5th out of the 7 Canadian teams). For any team below the half-way mark, there are potentially markets without teams where the team could become instantly more valuable.

[dino7c]

If anything this shows how badly the Flames need a new arena...team in this market shouldn't be in the bottom half of the league

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

to me the valuation is somewhat useless, unless the owners are trying to sell.

flames 2021-22 revenue - $174m
Oilers 2021-22 revenue - $250m

that seems really surprising. i woner how accurate these figures are.

The revenue figures include all team-related revenue. Oilers are getting a boost because they own OEL Digital Gaming, host more events at the facility, and have a stake in the mixed-use development surrounding the arena.

If the Flames' revenue is $174M and the current roster salary is $88M, that's $86M remaining to cover operations and admin, as well as subsidize a couple of other CSEC ventures like the Heat.

They might be in the bottom half of the league for revenue and valuation, but the teams that are higher are have additional revenue streams (e.g. Oilers) and/or are in bigger markets.





The Flames are doing fine. There's really no business case here to give them more taxpayer money.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If anything this shows how badly the Flames need a new arena...team in this market shouldn't be in the bottom half of the league

I'm not sure what the other teams look like to compare but it is worth noting that attendance is falling. Maybe due to COVID restrictions? Not sure but avg attendance last year was about 74% of full capacity. If you look over time it's been slipping over the last couple years. Nothing to get "worried" about, but definitely noteworthy. Also, people are buying stuff in CAD and the team has significant USD expenses too. Price wise, the Saddledome is cheaper compared to around the league, and they max out their salary cap.

And then when you look at this year, there's a looooooot of empty seats out there (or so it looks on TV).

I dunno, I think Flames fans like to pat themselves on the back for doing what is arguably a subpar job supporting the team overall. Quiet crowd, no longer selling out despite having a wicked team. I dunno. Pretty iffy. If any part of this organization / team needs to pull up its socks it is the collective fanbase.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Misleading information is misleading. Valuations only mean something if you're willing to sell the asset and can find someone willing to give you what that valuation is set at. More importantly, the Flames were 21st in revenues last season. That's substantial, especially when you're spending to the cap and trying to make a profit. Most of the metrics places the Flames in the bottom third of the league, so everything is not roses as the OP would like to suggest. I would actually like to see what teams are turning a profit and what those profits look like. I suspect that the majority of the teams are not in positive situations, including the Flames, especially after the past few years. I seriously doubt that anyone invested in the Flames is doing a Scrooge McDuck money dive with the dollars coming in from this investment.

Someone better inform the entire stock market that asset valuation growth doesn't matter.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You have to be careful comparing the numbers between teams as they are not necessarily apples to apples - certain sources of revenue may be included for one team but not another

Comparing Edmonton to Calgary, for example, it is hard to imagine that Edmonton's revenues are 47% higher than Calgary's - it seems likely that something isn't being included in the Flames' numbers that is being included up north.

Fully agree with your statement as that seems to be too large of a gap for similar markets. I would assume that Forbes would have similar sources of revenue for each team to keep things even but than again, who knows how much information is being released by teams. Like with the Billionaire lists from years ago, people would always think different people had different networth's in reality

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Someone better inform the entire stock market that asset valuation growth doesn't matter.

I'm not one to defend the guy you're quoting - in fact I wish fewer people would quote him - but this doesn't make any sense as a response to what you bolded. The stock market is predicated entirely on the fact that the assets are easy to buy and sell. Which is the point. There is no need for a valuation on a public market - everyone already knows what the value of a share of Apple stock is.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Misleading information is misleading. Valuations only mean something if you're willing to sell the asset and can find someone willing to give you what that valuation is set at. More importantly, the Flames were 21st in revenues last season. That's substantial, especially when you're spending to the cap and trying to make a profit. Most of the metrics places the Flames in the bottom third of the league, so everything is not roses as the OP would like to suggest. I would actually like to see what teams are turning a profit and what those profits look like. I suspect that the majority of the teams are not in positive situations, including the Flames, especially after the past few years. I seriously doubt that anyone invested in the Flames is doing a Scrooge McDuck money dive with the dollars coming in from this investment.

Valuation means a lot. And 21st in revenue in one of the most exclusive clubs in the world is not a problem. Nearly every team spends to within a million or two of the cap.

What is misleading here? Extremely valuable and rare assets generally require upkeep. Pro sports owners have figured out how to get taxpayers to help pay for it.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I think that this is kinda neat but obviously if the Coyotes were sold and relocated, they would get a lot more than $465m. It would essentially be like getting an expansion team

They would sell for about that amount and then a relocation fee would cover the delta to the expansion fees


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[The Yen Man]

These threads always seem to devolve into another thread where folks from both sides continue to dig their heels in whether they support public money going towards a new facility or don't.

At the end of the day, a city of Calgary's size would not be getting an arena of that size if not for having an NHL team. If you want an arena of that size and that can properly host other things, then some public money will have to go into it. And I'm ok with that. I still think a 50/50 split is pretty fair. I'd rather my tax dollars go toward something that I'll actually use (the arena) and I want (having an NHL team to cheer for) vs. something that I won't really ever use (ie. the public library). But that's just my stance. You are free to think differently.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'd rather my tax dollars go toward something that I'll actually use (the arena) and I want (having an NHL team to cheer for) vs. something that I won't really ever use (ie. the public library).

Absolutely brutal take.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Absolutely brutal take.

Reminds me of idiocracy. How far along are we until we start building coliseums and having lions versus criminals?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Valuation means a lot.

It really doesn't, especially as it pertains to sports team ownership. Valuations are wildly inaccurate and never amount to a hill of beans. The value of the team only matters when someone is trying to sell it. What other mechanism will the valuation of the team matter?

And 21st in revenue in one of the most exclusive clubs in the world is not a problem. Nearly every team spends to within a million or two of the cap.

Being 21st in revenue is a bit problematic, especially in a league where most teams are likely not making a lot of money. You may claim it's an exclusive club, but if only 10 of 32 members are making money, then coming in the top 10 is kind of important, no? The numbers reported certainly fly in the face of the claims the Flames are some juggernaut of a market.

What is misleading here? Extremely valuable and rare assets generally require upkeep. Pro sports owners have figured out how to get taxpayers to help pay for it.

Misleading is suggesting the Flames are in great shape and raking it in. More data is required to determine just how healthy the team and market is. Suggesting being 21st in a 32 team league is a good thing is something I never thought I would hear someone say. I guess Phoenix is in a great shape too, seeing as they are a member of that same very exclusive club?

[Monahammer]

Lol at some people claiming that nhl owners haven't been enriched. This is an asset that has 10x+ since they purchased. Counting it as part of their net worth, it has likely greatly enhanced the worth of several of the owners.

Sure, they're not going to sell it today (happy some of you will admit this, also hard LOL here given the threats of moving.) I wonder if any of them have borrowed against it or financed using their ownership stake though?