Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by opendoor

A bit disingenuous? For one thing, it's not over 2 years, as Azure claims. that figure is based on 7 fiscal years from 2020 to 2027.



And those "non-COVID support programs" are the sum total of all new spending in the budgets, which includes things like:



-$23B in additional spending on the military

-tens of billions of dollars to support industries

-billions in infrastructure spending

-billions in compensation to residential school survivors

-natural disaster recovery costs from what happened last fall in BC.





That doesn't even get into the absurdity of trying to frame non-COVID spending (which is obviously a far more productive thing to spend money on) as somehow a bad thing.

Yes, but what percentage goes specifically to the WE charity?

/Greentext

[peter12]

The issue on spending is more that government has proven incredibly ineffective in actually getting this funding into actual programs.

[calculoso]

Ontario PCs / Doug Ford legislating school workers (custodians, assistants, etc not teachers) back to work before any strike action has been started, and using the notwithstanding clause to do so

https://twitter.com/user/status/1587131769521938433

[Azure]

Originally Posted by opendoor

A bit disingenuous? For one thing, it's not over 2 years, as Azure claims. that figure is based on 7 fiscal years from 2020 to 2027.

And those "non-COVID support programs" are the sum total of all new spending in the budgets, which includes things like:

-$23B in additional spending on the military
-tens of billions of dollars to support industries
-billions in infrastructure spending
-billions in compensation to residential school survivors
-natural disaster recovery costs from what happened last fall in BC.


That doesn't even get into the absurdity of trying to frame non-COVID spending (which is obviously a far more productive thing to spend money on) as somehow a bad thing.

The argument is that spending is out of control.

The Trudeau Government likely had no control but to spend a bunch of money on COVID support, just like every other government in the world. Not sure one could fault them there, though I'm sure many things could have been done better.

But that doesn't excuse billions and billions in spending when inflation is already a major issue.

So not as 'absurd' as you think it is. Though not surprising that you fail to see that. Gotta keep spinning.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Yes, but what percentage goes specifically to the WE charity?

/Greentext

Well one thing is certain, Trudeau supporters have zero issue with corruption, and are completely willing to look the other day as long as those dirty PCs don't get into power.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Azure

The argument is that spending is out of control.

The Trudeau Government likely had no control but to spend a bunch of money on COVID support, just like every other government in the world. Not sure one could fault them there, though I'm sure many things could have been done better.

But that doesn't excuse billions and billions in spending when inflation is already a major issue.

So not as 'absurd' as you think it is. Though not surprising that you fail to see that. Gotta keep spinning.

It's tough to fault them for anything done during Covid. The issue is that this government has never seemed to have had a plan for governing beyond spending announcements and has never really shown more than a cursory interest in reining in their spending.

We basically have a lame duck government now, out of ideas and propped up an even lamer NDP. The civil service is demoralized, Canadians are more divided than ever, and the BQ seems to now have a permanent place in Canadian politics once again.

I'm not a CPC partisan by any means. I am actually quite skeptical of PP and I think he really overestimates his own political genius. We are stuck where we are because of ever-present CPC incompetency.

That said, we need a change. I really fail to see how JT and his government, especially the most recent iteration, cannot be called one of the most absent and poor governments in Canadian history. They have got to go.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

The argument is that spending is out of control.

The Trudeau Government likely had no control but to spend a bunch of money on COVID support, just like every other government in the world. Not sure one could fault them there, though I'm sure many things could have been done better.

But that doesn't excuse billions and billions in spending when inflation is already a major issue.

So not as 'absurd' as you think it is. Though not surprising that you fail to see that. Gotta keep spinning.

If you don't like what they're spending money on, then criticize that. If you don't like them spending more on the military, dental care, infrastructure or whatever they've earmarked that money for, then say it. Talking about "non-COVID supports" is about as vague and useless an argument I can imagine. And it also makes COVID spending to be some sort of sacred cow, while criticizing spending that will probably turn out to be much more useful.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's tough to fault them for anything done during Covid.

Not necessarily. Some of the supports were obviously poorly thought out as soon as they were announced. While not as egregious as the PPP in the US, the CEBA was handing out money to businesses whether they needed it or not with no oversight. And the CEWS was heavily abused by a bunch of businesses who used it for a bit and then quickly got back to earning record profits and doing stock buybacks and there was never any kind of clawback.

Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum, until they altered CERB, individuals were essentially prohibited from picking up any kind of work for a period if they wanted to remain eligible.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Azure

So not as 'absurd' as you think it is. Though not surprising that you fail to see that. Gotta keep spinning.

Out of curiosity, why do you label opendoor’s addition of facts that provide context to a report (and correct inaccuracy) as “spin”?

Would you say you were “spinning” when you purposely described government spending in a way that wasn’t fact-based?

I don’t know many Trudeau supporters, but you seem to make a game of pretending anyone who fact-checks you is one and is engaged in spin. Do you think that approach is effective to people who are paying attention? What do you hope to accomplish with it?

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1587471055853174789

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1587471055853174789

Did you put your condo up for sale and apply for your green card?

[The Fisher Account]

Everyone complaining about this should ask themselves if they still hope to get CPP and OAS. This is really the only way to ensure it.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Sounds about right - something in the range of 400,000 last year, so 500k by 2025 doesn't sound unachievable to me.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Everyone complaining about this should ask themselves if they still hope to get CPP and OAS. This is really the only way to ensure it.

My issue is more with the house of cards we have built that requires this.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

My issue is more with the house of cards we have built that requires this.

It's not really something anyone built, it's really more just demographics. As societies get richer, people tend to have fewer kids which results in uneven demographic distributions.

We should be thankful that we live in a country that has the ability to alleviate that through immigration. Places like Japan, Russia, and China are all in a pretty precarious long-term position with their demographics and the fact that they have historically had little immigration.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's not really something anyone built, it's really more just demographics. As societies get richer, people tend to have fewer kids which results in uneven demographic distributions.

We should be thankful that we live in a country that has the ability to alleviate that through immigration. Places like Japan, Russia, and China are all in a pretty precarious long-term position with their demographics and the fact that they have historically had little immigration.

But in the end more people just means things getting more expensive, more crowded, and more resources being consumed that the planet can't handle. It's a global issue, but the root of it is economic systems that only really function in growth environments. At some point we need to figure out how to keep things working at a steady state.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

But in the end more people just means things getting more expensive, more crowded, and more resources being consumed that the planet can't handle. It's a global issue, but the root of it is economic systems that only really function in growth environments. At some point we need to figure out how to keep things working at a steady state.

These people lived somewhere else before they come here and crowded and consumed things there. They may consume more here (probably will) but overall they will also produce more here as well.

[StickMan]

Governments have always borrowed money by selling bonds to lenders. What was different this time is that the Bank of Canada bought these bonds right back at a higher price from the financial institutions that bought them in the first place. This made it easier for the Trudeau government to sell those bonds and raise debt, because lenders knew they would be repaid a bigger sum almost immediately by the central bank.

And how does the central bank pay for the bonds? It deposits money into the accounts that financial institutions have at the Bank of Canada. Because those deposits are the equivalent of cash, they instantly add to the Canadian money supply. From the start until the end of the Bank of Canada’s quantitative easing program, the M2 money supply in Canada grew roughly 25 per cent.

Figuratively speaking, that is money printing. And the increase in the amount of electronic money in these accounts leads to increases in paper money later on. That is why bills in circulation went up 27 per cent, from $90 billion to $114 billion, during the quantitative easing period. That is literally $24 billion of printed money.

For those financial institutions that keep the money on deposit, the Bank of Canada must pay interest — at the going rate. Because rates are now rising, the central bank is now losing money and will need a bailout from the federal government for the first time in history...

The only reason to do it was to fund government overspending. It allowed Trudeau and Freeland to wave away the danger of supercharged deficits by claiming they could basically borrow for free. Had the government been forced to borrow real money from real lenders, interest rates on government debt would have been higher and Trudeau would have been forced to borrow less.

Worse still, all the cash that was pumped into the financial and mortgage systems created a massive housing bubble...

According to Bloomberg, Canada has the second most inflated housing bubble in the world. But that bubble is now bursting as the government suddenly reverses course with sharp rises in interest rates. Monthly payments on mega mortgages are rising, even as house prices are falling, so people cannot even sell their homes to pay off their debts.

Liberals like to say that all this inflation is the result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But less than 0.3 per cent of Canada’s trade is with those two countries, and the things that they produce are things we already have — food and energy. In fact, the higher commodity prices should have helped our resource-heavy economy, but for the fact that the Trudeau government has hit farmers with fertilizer tariffs and carbon taxes and blocked or bungled every single pipeline or LNG export terminal proposed in seven years.

Inflation was already 5.1 per cent when Russia invaded Ukraine. And even the governor of the Bank of Canada has now said “Inflation in Canada increasingly reflects what’s happening in Canada.” One of his predecessors, Mark Carney, who is now positioning himself to replace Justin Trudeau, said that inflation “is principally a domestic story.”

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/pie...uced-inflation

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

These people lived somewhere else before they come here and crowded and consumed things there. They may consume more here (probably will) but overall they will also produce more here as well.

uh huh... assuming we let them... this country isn't exactly known for "doing stuff" lately, I dunno if you've noticed.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

uh huh... assuming we let them... this country isn't exactly known for "doing stuff" lately, I dunno if you've noticed.

Pretty sure the plan isn't to bring them in here just to hang out.