Russia invades Ukraine

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Texas

Putin needs to be seen as a strongman - the invincible protector. I'm not sure that the narrative of Ukraine detonating a dirty bond within Russia's boarders fits that narrative. Also, Western Allies + India / China would see through him if any kind of nuclear device is used (including a dirty bond), so I don't think a false flag within Russian borders would help in anyway.

Now Putin detonating one within Ukraine's borders and blaming Ukraine, that I would see unfortunately. Just to demoralize them, mess up their land and just sow chaos.

Detonating it in one of the recently annexed but not (or no longer) occupied regions would fit the bill. It's an 'attack on Russia' but only impacts Ukrainians.

[Huntingwhale]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...9aa62d61ea7eb6


Disgustingly uncomfortable article laying out how the targetting of civilians isn't a few random soldiers going rogue. It's order coming from the top. Some NSFL images, but important this information is public (as if we didn't know already).



The only good Russian soldier on Ukrainian land is a dead one. Full stop.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...9aa62d61ea7eb6


Disgustingly uncomfortable article laying out how the targetting of civilians isn't a few random soldiers going rogue. It's order coming from the top. Some NSFL images, but important this information is public (as if we didn't know already).



The only good Russian soldier on Ukrainian land is a dead one. Full stop.

That #### brings back bad memories.

Kill them all.

[calumniate]

Putin live streaming, talking about the environment and biodiversity.. wtf
https://sustellers.com/live-putins-i...h-translation/

Edit - also about how great dostoevsky is.. pretty sure his book report is off the mark.. christ

[Huntingwhale]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1585279795134439425

[Firebot]

The Ukrainian genocide by Russian hands will be seen 50 years from now as the world's failure to learn from the Holocaust and failing to heed its own promises.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again

Expect the numbers from Mariupol to be utterly catastrophic, and we know that over 1 million Ukrainians mostly women and children have been kidnapped.

And these happened in areas which were initially Russian aligned and Russian speaking in just a matter of months. What would have occured had Putin succeeded in fully occupying Ukraine?

The scope of this genocide is so large, that the general public is simply unable to comprehend, and media isn't reporting on as it's simply not possible to grasp that this could be occuring in 2022.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The Ukrainian genocide by Russian hands will be seen 50 years from now as the world's failure to learn from the Holocaust and failing to heed its own promises.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again

Expect the numbers from Mariupol to be utterly catastrophic, and we know that over 1 million Ukrainians mostly women and children have been kidnapped.

And these happened in areas which were initially Russian aligned and Russian speaking in just a matter of months. What would have occured had Putin succeeded in fully occupying Ukraine?

The scope of this genocide is so large, that the general public is simply unable to comprehend, and media isn't reporting on as it's simply not possible to grasp that this could be occuring in 2022.

Uh, not to dismiss or minimize suffering in Ukraine, but what about all the other genocides since WWII? It's not like there haven't been numerous genocides since WWII, and there has been much more support committed to stopping what's happening in Ukraine than there was with other recent genocides. How many tens of billions of dollars were poured into stopping Rwanda, Cambodia, Darfur etc?

The ship has sadly long since sailed on "never again".

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Uh, not to dismiss or minimize suffering in Ukraine, but what about all the other genocides since WWII? It's not like there haven't been numerous genocides since WWII, and there has been much more support committed to stopping what's happening in Ukraine than there was with other recent genocides. How many tens of billions of dollars were poured into stopping Rwanda, Cambodia, Darfur etc?

The ship has sadly long since sailed on "never again".

non-White genocides don't count

[CM ONE]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

non-White genocides don't count

Does this one even count? I read all the stories and posts and am saddened and outraged but still I do nothing. What can I do? I have a family I provide for and can't imagine this happening to me. I say I would grab a gun and defend my country and way of life but what do I do with my wife and children? It's not really a white or not thing. It's just a "Thank God it's not me" thing.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

non-White genocides don't count

Or the Balkans (unless it's Greece)

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Or the Balkans (unless it's Greece)

Non-WASP

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Uh, not to dismiss or minimize suffering in Ukraine, but what about all the other genocides since WWII? It's not like there haven't been numerous genocides since WWII, and there has been much more support committed to stopping what's happening in Ukraine than there was with other recent genocides. How many tens of billions of dollars were poured into stopping Rwanda, Cambodia, Darfur etc?

The ship has sadly long since sailed on "never again".

What about them?

No one is dismissing other genocides by pointing out one ongoing right now in focus.

This thread is about Russia invades Ukraine. We can for sure talk about other genocides including Darfur, Rwanda, Syria and the Khmer Rouge if you would like. Put up a thread and we can talk about other genocide situations. Myanmar has a genocide occurring right now. Yes the 'never again' has become a bit of a joke as genocides continue to occur.

You are not going to get an argument on it.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Uh, not to dismiss or minimize suffering in Ukraine, but what about all the other genocides since WWII? It's not like there haven't been numerous genocides since WWII, and there has been much more support committed to stopping what's happening in Ukraine than there was with other recent genocides. How many tens of billions of dollars were poured into stopping Rwanda, Cambodia, Darfur etc?

The ship has sadly long since sailed on "never again".

White people being the perps and victims is definitely part of the high profile. And Russia being a nuclear power.

The other part is that likely NO ONE expected a land war in Eastern Europe (or Europe) ever again after the carnage of the Eastern Front 70 years ago. It just seemed like an impossible scenario.

Conflicts in Africa are much more commonplace and so North Americans and Europeans are fairly desensitized to it. Doesn't make it any less devastating to the victims there, but that's just how it is perceived globally.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Uh, not to dismiss or minimize suffering in Ukraine, but....

"I'm not racist, but..." (proceeds to say something racist)

"I like the guy, but..." (proceeds to say something insulting)

"I am not trying to be rude but..." (proceeds to say or do something rude)

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The Ukrainian genocide by Russian hands will be seen 50 years from now as the world's failure to learn from the Holocaust and failing to heed its own promises.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again

Expect the numbers from Mariupol to be utterly catastrophic, and we know that over 1 million Ukrainians mostly women and children have been kidnapped.

And these happened in areas which were initially Russian aligned and Russian speaking in just a matter of months. What would have occured had Putin succeeded in fully occupying Ukraine?

The scope of this genocide is so large, that the general public is simply unable to comprehend, and media isn't reporting on as it's simply not possible to grasp that this could be occuring in 2022.

I think it would be through a very naïve lens you'd have to be viewing this conflict to not understand why western countries aren't doing more. I don't think it is a money thing and I don't think it is a spare-our-own-forces thing. It is - as has been explained to you every second page for months on end - a nuclear thing.

First of all, Russia does not have a "no-first-use" policy, meaning they are willing to use nuclear weapons even if they haven't been engaged with them first. They did have a no-first-use policy up until 1993, but then reversed it at that time.

Their policy states they reserve the right to use nuclear weapons, "in case of aggression against Russia with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is threatened."

Western nations joining the fray would perfectly fit Russia's criteria to use nuclear weapons.

Would they? I don't know. I think they would, personally. If Russia is engaged by the superior armies of western nations that would absolutely put the existence of the state in jeopardy. They have a magic button they could press to take numerous armies and states down with them.

If you don't think they would, that's fair, but what an enormous fataing world-changing civilization-ending risk to take.

Ukraine has the losing hand here. They're the ones taking it on the chin every minute of the day because we're not willing to back Putin that far into a corner. It's horrible, but it doesn't mean we have a reasonable way to help much beyond what we're doing. Between HIMARS and all the rest of the arms, intel, logistics and training the West is supplying to Ukraine, I'd say we're already dancing a little on the cusp of what Putin could reasonably argue is jeopardizing his state's existence.

So in 50 years will people look back at this and think we were sitting on our hands? Maybe morons, but there is more at play than us eating popcorn and watching a slaughter as you imply over and over and over and over and over and over again throughout this thread. It's polluted with your armchair quarterbacking and you're like Teflon sprayed in PAM letting every explanation or colour added to the situation slide right off. I guess you're just not mentally equipped to understand the situation beyond a very basic and ignorant level and perhaps you never will be.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by greyshep

"I'm not racist, but..." (proceeds to say something racist)

"I like the guy, but..." (proceeds to say something insulting)

"I am not trying to be rude but..." (proceeds to say or do something rude)

Except he didn’t do that, he pointed out that the phrase “The Ukrainian genocide by Russian hands will be seen 50 years from now as the world's failure to learn from the Holocaust and failing to heed its own promises” doesn’t hold a lot of water considering the number of genocides since the Holocaust (which could all be seen as the world’s failure to learn from the Holocaust, I guess) and the fact that this one is actually the highest profile and is garnering far more military and international attention than any one since the Holocaust.

Basically, if you were going to pick a genocide to cite as evidence of the world’s failure to learn from the Holocaust, this is quite literally the worst one you could pick since the Holocaust itself. A decent argument could even be made that it’s actually the exact opposite (evidence the world did learn something).

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Except he didn’t do that, he pointed out that the phrase “The Ukrainian genocide by Russian hands will be seen 50 years from now as the world's failure to learn from the Holocaust and failing to heed its own promises” doesn’t hold a lot of water considering the number of genocides since the Holocaust (which could all be seen as the world’s failure to learn from the Holocaust, I guess) and the fact that this one is actually the highest profile and is garnering far more military and international attention than any one since the Holocaust.

Basically, if you were going to pick a genocide to cite as evidence of the world’s failure to learn from the Holocaust, this is quite literally the worst one you could pick since the Holocaust itself. A decent argument could even be made that it’s actually the exact opposite (evidence the world did learn something).

Edit... Maybe you are getting my quote mixed up with the comment Firebot made??

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

No, he's not.

Anyway no one said anything racist.

I'm still not sure what lesson was supposed to have been learned from the holocaust that is supposed to be applied here. Is it "don't let people do genocides because those are bad"? Because if so, JohnnyB is right, that's not one that's been learned at any time before the holocaust or since... or hell, even currently; leave aside the Uyghurs and the Chinese and the fairly impotent finger-wagging that's been engaged in there on the basis that you can understand throwing up your hands a bit when it's China engaged in the atrocities (what are you supposed to do to stop them), I mean the Burmese military has been murdering children for years for the crime of being born of Muslim parents and barely anyone on this continent even noticed.

[burn_this_city]

Bellingcat dropped more details on the GRU spy with the YYC connection.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1585988275814428672

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Bellingcat dropped more details on the GRU spy with the YYC connection.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1585988275814428672

Oh dear... not the place you want to see that shirt if you're an NDPer.