How much time should top-line Toffoli be given to connect?

[CSharp]

I think Tiffoli has been not too bad. There's definitely some disconnect with all 3 guys on the top line at the moment. Huberdeau, like one commentator said, likes to doodle or pass back on entering the zone. With Gaudreau, he can do both and would likely have someone speed up into the offensive zone and he hangs back. Since Lindholm isn't given the opportunity to hang out at the top of the circle now and Huberdeau is still trying to find both wingers, they aren't gelling but it'll take a bit more time. I think Tiffoli is starting to find his way around the net. He's fine. Just be patient with with. Second line is flying though. But I wish Coleman is on the second line with Kadri and Mangi.

[FlamesAddiction]

Toffoli has been fine so far this season. Even last season, I didn't think he was ever bad really. It would have been nice to see a few more goals, but I also recall him getting absolutely robbed a few times. The effort was always there.

I think keep the lines together as long as the team is winning enough. Huberdeau is a really skilled player, but he is also unpredictable so it will take time to get the chemistry going. While Gaudreau and Tkachuk are skilled players in their own right, they are also fairly predictable. They had their set plays, which were really effective. Huberdeau seems to be less about set plays and more about creating stuff on the fly. Once Lindholm learns how he thinks, it could be a lethal combination.

[TheSquatch]

At one point, I was asking myself "What does Toffoli bring that say, Brett Ritchie, doesn't?" And a game or two in I had no answer. What I see is Toffoli charging around doing all kinds of things, really putting a lot of effort in, but I wasn't sure his finish was gonna be there, and it's looking like it is (so that's the answer, he does have more finish, he's a better shooter).

So that line SHOULD work. Huberdeau is a playmaker, Lindholm's a decent shooter, and Toffoli is too. None of them are super fast, it's not a lightning line, it's a possession line. And that's fine if they are defensively responsible. Suddenly here the top line doesn't need to do ALL the work, and that's just great. We've needed this forever... it's so great having Kadri at 2c and Backlund at 3c, changes everything about the team structure.

Would I like to see a Pat Kane with Huberdeau? Yeah. But that's not too likely, really.

Give it more time.

[Redrum]

I'm not sure what the OP is trying to say. He kind of makes it sound like Toff hasn't been the best player on that line by a ****ing light-year.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

At one point, I was asking myself "What does Toffoli bring that say, Brett Ritchie, doesn't?" And a game or two in I had no answer. What I see is Toffoli charging around doing all kinds of things, really putting a lot of effort in, but I wasn't sure his finish was gonna be there, and it's looking like it is (so that's the answer, he does have more finish, he's a better shooter).

So that line SHOULD work. Huberdeau is a playmaker, Lindholm's a decent shooter, and Toffoli is too. None of them are super fast, it's not a lightning line, it's a possession line. And that's fine if they are defensively responsible. Suddenly here the top line doesn't need to do ALL the work, and that's just great. We've needed this forever... it's so great having Kadri at 2c and Backlund at 3c, changes everything about the team structure.

Would I like to see a Pat Kane with Huberdeau? Yeah. But that's not too likely, really.

Give it more time.

It's true that Tiffoli is not an Eas-West type of player. He's a true North-South and park in front of the net type player. Not too much IQ in that. Huberdeau is trying to make plays - probably trying way too hard where he's trying to pass the pucks back to make more dangerous plays. However, both Tiffoli and Lindholm are skating way past Huberdeau up the ice and he's unable to make those plays like he did when he was a Panthers. I think when the linemates get into sync, it'll be magical. It may work with getting Mangi up in the first line as a left wing since both Tiffoli and Lindholm are both right hand shots.

[Teroy]

Sorry, I don't get the "Lindholm" is the problem. He's been working his butt off. Huberdeau can stick handle his way in a phone booth but doesn't appear to accomplish anything. Reminds me of Gaudreau coughing up the puck a lot.
Toffoli has been a much better player this year than last. The line isn't scoring like some expect them to but they aren't hurting us either. I can't see breaking up the Kadri, Dube, Mangiapane line. We could end up with two lines not clicking. Three wins no thanks to Markstrom. Sutter will figure it out.

[scobel]

To early to change anything! The top line is still sorting out positioning with each other. Lindholm and Toffoli are still looking for the spots on the ice to be open and get that shot away. For lindholm it is very different as most of his goals came from a pass down low to the open slot as he was heading towards the net. Huberdeau is much more a board player and passes coming across the middle of the ice. You could argue Huberdeau is setup better to help defensively. With Toffoli a little bit more success as he played with players that dished across the middle, so seems to be adapting ok. With all that said it will come Lindholm and Toffoli are too good of shooters and Huberdeau too good of play maker not to work. Just time as Sutter has said. Luckily for Calgary the season has kicked off ok.

[Burning Beard]

What a silly thread.

[Poe969]

The team has lost 1 game, Toffoli has 5 points in 5 games and all lines look good...I'd change the lines to:

Rooney - mangipane - Backlund
Ritchie - Huberdeau - Coleman
Lindholm - Lewis - Lucic
Dube - Ruzicka - Kadri
Toffoli

[Harry Lime]

I agree with the 2nd post in the thread, but I have one request... everything that Tony soprano posts from now on better have a good natured tone of terror from here on out. Alright? *smile and pat on shoulder*

[Dion]

I trust what Sutter is doing. I suspect he wants to give that line sme time to develop some chemistry.

[#-3]

Given the games so far, I think if the 2nd line struggles for a game, and the top line hasn't clicked yet. Then maybe you swap Kadri and Lindholm just to see if it works

Kadri is the obvious start of the offense so far, and probably deserve a shot with the top playmaker if the team needs a shake up. And take any of the top 3 centers, I like Mang & Dube where they are in the lineup right now.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Poe969

The team has lost 1 game, Toffoli has 5 points in 5 games and all lines look good...I'd change the lines to:

Rooney - mangipane - Backlund
Ritchie - Huberdeau - Coleman
Lindholm - Lewis - Lucic
Dube - Ruzicka - Kadri
Toffoli

You forgot to scratch Kadri & Huby and play Phillips & Pelletier in their place.

[Poe969]

When Buzz Kylington comes back we should try him on the top line Rw and maybe bring up wolf and try him as the #4C.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Poe969

When Buzz Kylington comes back we should try him on the top line Rw and maybe bring up wolf and try him as the #4C.

Only if Wolf keeps his goalie equipment on while playing C.

Then we can put Toffoli in goal with his skater's equipment. I figure people are going to hate him no matter what he does, so we might as well give him a job where he'll actually suck.

(There was a British joke orchestra called the Portsmouth Sinfonia. They had two rules: (1) anyone could join, especially non-musicians, and (2) if an actual musician joined, he had to pick an instrument he had never played before. The hockey version of this would make a great travelling comedy act.)

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

At one point, I was asking myself "What does Toffoli bring that say, Brett Ritchie, doesn't?" And a game or two in I had no answer. What I see is Toffoli charging around doing all kinds of things, really putting a lot of effort in, but I wasn't sure his finish was gonna be there, and it's looking like it is (so that's the answer, he does have more finish, he's a better shooter).

So that line SHOULD work. Huberdeau is a playmaker, Lindholm's a decent shooter, and Toffoli is too. None of them are super fast, it's not a lightning line, it's a possession line. And that's fine if they are defensively responsible. Suddenly here the top line doesn't need to do ALL the work, and that's just great. We've needed this forever... it's so great having Kadri at 2c and Backlund at 3c, changes everything about the team structure.

Would I like to see a Pat Kane with Huberdeau? Yeah. But that's not too likely, really.

Give it more time.

The problem I see from watching a bunch of Huberdeau highlights is that yes Huberdeau is not super quick himself, but his elite playmaking on the rush requires two fast line mates.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Sorry, I don't get the "Lindholm" is the problem. He's been working his butt off. Huberdeau can stick handle his way in a phone booth but doesn't appear to accomplish anything. Reminds me of Gaudreau coughing up the puck a lot.
Toffoli has been a much better player this year than last. The line isn't scoring like some expect them to but they aren't hurting us either. I can't see breaking up the Kadri, Dube, Mangiapane line. We could end up with two lines not clicking. Three wins no thanks to Markstrom. Sutter will figure it out.

Now what I'm seeing.

I'll never judge the guys' work ethic as I agree he always works hard, but so many unforced turnovers and/or mishandlings of the puck. And it's not just a few occasions.

Last place in CA60
7th spot in xGA60
5th worse in HDCA60

Those are defensive stats, so it's not just about offence. He's not himself at all.

Two way stats ...
Last place in CF%
He's only ahead of Lucic in xGF%

He's struggling.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Stuntman Mike

The Flames are 4-1-0, and every team they've faced is a really strong team.

Toffoli has 3G and 2A. Considering it's a new line facing some of the top competition in the world, I don't really see a problem.

Well.

I'm going to start to panic.

[Hockey_Ninja]

This thread proves how we got spoiled with that top line last year

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

This thread proves how we got spoiled with that top line last year

100%

I think this fan base in general underplayed/underappreciated how much this team would miss the top line. I know for myself, I sang their praises all season long last year because they were a special line, maybe the best line I’ve ever personally seen.

Last year, I thought Gaudreau and Tkachuk made life real easy for Lindholm allowing him to play to more to his strengths like getting in on the forecheck, working the boards, cycling and getting open in the slot whereas now, he’s expected to play more like a conventional #1 center which I’m not sure suits Lindholm’s game. That was a big concern that I had going into the season because of how different Huberdeau is from Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

With this current roster, I think it almost makes more sense for Lindholm to convert to wing on the top line or center a more checking focused line down the lineup. That’s where Lindholm can excel because he’s at his best when he can check for his chances and get dirty in the corners.

That’s not really Huberdeau or Toffoli’s strengths though and that’s part of the reason why the top line doesn’t work in my opinion. Neither of them are great puck retrievers, they don’t check well, the entire line itself doesn’t generate enough speed in transition to dump the puck in effectively. Their rush chances have been few and far between. Honestly, the line just doesn’t work; they’ve been getting fed a lot of offensive zone starts, yet they’re not producing, they don’t look dangerous and they’re definitely the weakest link out of the 4 lines right now.