Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

I’m not super invested in a voting age debate, but doesn’t it have to do with being a taxpayer? People under 18 aren’t paying income tax…although maybe the NDP has a plan to square that circle as well!

They typically are not, however the mainstream concept that individuals under 18 are 'tax-exempt' is false.

They typically dont pay taxes because they dont normally earn much, under the amount of the Basic Personal Tax Credit, but anyone, regardless of age, is required to report income earned and pay any required taxes.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

yes, but do the majority of them have enough experience and knowledge to make an informed decision? Are they able to set priorities? Can they be over influenced by teachers or social media? It seems that the extreme environmentalists have set their sights on the younger vote with their scare tactics.

I worry about the "dumbing down" of the voting base. It's already at an all time low in my estimation.

What percentage of the voter base makes an informed decision?
What percentage of the voter base votes by meme on social media?

Kids are at least learning factual information in school as one of many information sources. Many voters get their information from roughly zero factual sources.

What do you see the difference between an 18 year old and a 16 year old in this case. Or say an 86 year old in a nursing home who will die in the next 6 months.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

yes, but do the majority of them have enough experience and knowledge to make an informed decision? Are they able to set priorities? Can they be over influenced by teachers or social media? It seems that the extreme environmentalists have set their sights on the younger vote with their scare tactics.

I worry about the "dumbing down" of the voting base. It's already at an all time low in my estimation.

How many 80 year olds still have their wits about them? How many watch Fox News? How many of them like Donald Trump and his ilk?

It's weird to say 80 year olds are still ok to vote but teenagers can't. Everybody is influenced by something.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I worry about the "dumbing down" of the voting base. It's already at an all time low in my estimation.

In that case, you really ought to be more concerned about the older generations. Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z are statistically more educated than Baby Boomers. The younger generations have higher rates of post secondary education and much lower rates of dropping out of high school than Boomers*. If anyone is responsible for "dumbing down" the electorate, it certainly isn't voters under 45.

*About 90% of Canadian adults aged 20-44 have completed high school. By contrast, 73% of Canadians aged 65-74 and only 55% of Canadians aged 75+ have a high school education. Source: StatsCan

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Locke

They typically are not, however the mainstream concept that individuals under 18 are 'tax-exempt' is false.

They typically dont pay taxes because they dont normally earn much, under the amount of the Basic Personal Tax Credit, but anyone, regardless of age, is required to report income earned and pay any required taxes.

Yeah, I know that’s why they’re not paying taxes, but there is some semblance of common sense here. If you’re not an adult, should you be involved in those decisions?

I don’t think it comes down to intelligence either. A lot of people aren’t very smart despite their life experience!

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

As an Alberta social studies teacher, I'd say that lots of kids are very well informed and take a passion in what's happening in the society around them. Many (but not all) share the same ideas and values as their parents, which is fine.

I'd support lowering the voting age, and think it would really help if kids could actually vote when they are learning about some of these issues in school.

“Learning about it” more like captive audience., I’m sure they would get unbiased political views.

That’s all we need getting teachers to run pep rally’s to save their jobs or strong arm pay raises.
No thanks.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

yes, but do the majority of them have enough experience and knowledge to make an informed decision? Are they able to set priorities? Can they be over influenced by teachers or social media? It seems that the extreme environmentalists have set their sights on the younger vote with their scare tactics.

I worry about the "dumbing down" of the voting base. It's already at an all time low in my estimation.

Are you serious? You're talking about scare tactics, and don't see the hypocrisy in what you just said? lol

I teach in rural, northern Alberta. The kids are predominantly conservative, like almost all of them.

Your concerns about influence are no different for 18 year olds or people in their 20s and 30s. I mean you're going off about environmentalists potentially "having their sights set on younger voters". Are you concerned about what's influencing you and your views?

Wow.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by Yoho

[/B]


“Learning about it” more like captive audience., I’m sure they would get unbiased political views.

That’s all we need getting teachers to run pep rally’s to save their jobs or strong arm pay raises.
No thanks.

Over half of my social studies 30 class is over the age of 18 already. And in social 30 they primarily learn about governance and economics. So, you're concerns are invalid, as the situation already exists.

You accusing me of brainwashing my students? Got any proof, or is this Alex Jones level of stupidity you're espousing here?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Yoho

[/B]


“Learning about it” more like captive audience., I’m sure they would get unbiased political views.

That’s all we need getting teachers to run pep rally’s to save their jobs or strong arm pay raises.
No thanks.

I couldn't imagine living my life in fear like that.

Teachers are teaching. They are not there to brainwash the kids. Stop watching Tucker Carlson. Give our teachers some credit, they are great at what they do and are underpaid and get crapped on for no reason.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Yoho

[/B]


“Learning about it” more like captive audience., I’m sure they would get unbiased political views.

That’s all we need getting teachers to run pep rally’s to save their jobs or strong arm pay raises.
No thanks.

Right? I've been saying all this time, every teacher in Alberta needs to be personally vetted and approved by the UCP and forced to take unsensitivity training to remove their woke bias.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So what should the voting age be in your opinion, 14?

Why is my opinion required for you to answer the question posed to you?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, I know that’s why they’re not paying taxes, but there is some semblance of common sense here. If you’re not an adult, should you be involved in those decisions?

I don’t think it comes down to intelligence either. A lot of people aren’t very smart despite their life experience!

Le sigh...

Sorry, I really dont know at the moment. It could be a great idea, it could be a disaster. We've got Governments cutting education funding so our ~16 year old students could be dumber than rocks.

I personally love the idea of getting youth more involved in the process of Government, but at the same time I look back to 16 year old Locke and whether or not he should have had the ability to vote.

Probably not?

16-year old Locke was a genuine lunatic. He should not have had the right to vote.

Maybe things have gotten better?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Half the 24 year old "adults" I know are idiot children so I say 30.

Half of the people older than 30 I know, are so invested in their own affirmation biases that they are functionally incapable of assessing a political policy without first knowing weather or not others on their "team" are supporting it first.

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by Yoho

[/B]


“Learning about it” more like captive audience., I’m sure they would get unbiased political views.

That’s all we need getting teachers to run pep rally’s to save their jobs or strong arm pay raises.
No thanks.

Social media aside, the only thing brainwashing kids is their parents.

[b1crunch]

I can't frigging convince kids to bring their pen or textbook to class everyday, but somehow I'm going to convince them to get me a raise. Some of you need to get your head checked. Besides, you have no idea what my political affiliation is. Idiots.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

yes, but do the majority of them have enough experience and knowledge to make an informed decision? Are they able to set priorities? Can they be over influenced by teachers or social media? It seems that the extreme environmentalists have set their sights on the younger vote with their scare tactics.

I worry about the "dumbing down" of the voting base. It's already at an all time low in my estimation.

The majority of voters period don't have the experience and knowledge to make an informed decision. Like 80% of our population doesn't know a single damn thing other than "I vote for this colour and it would take a lot to change that".

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

yes, but (1) do the majority of them have enough experience and knowledge to make an informed decision? (2) Are they able to set priorities? (3) Can they be over influenced by teachers or social media? (4) It seems that the extreme environmentalists have set their sights on the younger vote with their scare tactics.

1. Probably, but it depends on the educator.

2. Probably, but it depends on the individual.

3. Maybe, but it depends on the educator and the individual.

4. Laugh out ####ing loud.

Having been employed in the post-secondary education industry, I witnessed Brian Jean bend over backwards to get onto college campuses in this province. The Wildrose party were trying to combat a manufactured myth that colleges and education in general were indoctrination camps for capital L liberal ideology.

The problem was that anyone with an education understood that capital C conservatives were more concerned about their base being holistically educated.

Brian Jean managed to swoon his way with a compromised Student Union president at then RDC (SURPRISE: they subsequently received a prestigious position in his campaign after exiting their presidency) and held a public propaganda session in the Margaret Parsons Theatre, and it went as well as you could expect. The room ate him alive because they had been exposed to experiences and ideas outside of the rural bubble, even at what has always been essentially a trades college.

Environmentalists haven't set their "scare tactics on the younger vote". A decent education has given them something to think about, which is a dangerous prospect if you're a conservative in this province.

I worry about the "dumbing down" of the voting base. It's already at an all time low in my estimation.

Hence why we have Facebook and YouTube "professionals" entrenching their ideology with the uneducated and ignorant, convincing them that Western Standard, Rebel, and inquisitive minds like Keean ####ing Bexte (who was a complete wiener when I went to school with him at U of C) are the real truth tellers in this world.

This isn't to equate that some arbitrary level of education = liberal/conservative, or left/right. Sheltered ignorance, however, is a powerful weapon and I've seen Conservative parties consistently pursue the dismantling of education as a means to ensure their own stranglehold on the voting populace.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I couldn't imagine living my life in fear like that.

Teachers are teaching. They are not there to brainwash the kids. Stop watching Tucker Carlson. Give our teachers some credit, they are great at what they do and are underpaid and get crapped on for no reason.

b1crunch literally just gave us a personal account of a teaching assistant literally attempting to brainwash kids.

Sorry KFF...you're off base here.

There's two factors at play here. First, is she shouldn't be trying to influence kids politically. Whatever her political beliefs, that's not hers (or anyones job). My students could never tell my political beliefs. They'd always ask me and I'd ask them to guess. its was always hilarious to see 1/3 of the class guess me to be NDP, 1/3 guess Liberal and 1/3 guess Conservative. But I always found comfort in it because it meant I was doing my job without influencing the kids (at least not overtly). I would always tell the kids, that my job was to teach them to think/question not what to think.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=2643
https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=2622

[calf]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, I know that’s why they’re not paying taxes, but there is some semblance of common sense here. If you’re not an adult, should you be involved in those decisions?

But why is 18 the cutoff for determining who and who isn't an adult? In 7 of 10 provinces, you have to be 19 to drink alcohol. 21 across the US even.

But we trust 16 year olds to drive. 16 year olds have reached the age of consent. 16 year olds can drop out of high school legally.

18 is an arbitrary number.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I couldn't imagine living my life in fear like that.

Teachers are teaching. They are not there to brainwash the kids. Stop watching Tucker Carlson. Give our teachers some credit, they are great at what they do and are underpaid and get crapped on for no reason.

I mean this province is predominantly conservative, and has been for a very long time, but somehow... teachers are nefariously working to influence kids. If that were true, then the evidence of the conservatives dominating this province for 40+ years (except 1 NDP term) would suggest teachers are turning everyone conservative, wouldn't it?