[News] CSEC and City of Calgary agree to restart formal discussions on new arena

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Why does the ice need to be at ground level? Build a giant C train station underneath the arena.

It’s usually below ground level, no?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

True, but the new rink won't have the heating utility system that a 75 story tower has either. If you have ever parked in the Bow you would realize you are 10 stories below street level also.

Why do everyone on here have to take some basic information and use it to try a prove someone wrong. Someone mentioned parking and loading docks and all I did was provide some information that is proven, take it any way you want it but an ice plant isn't the deciding factor if they will build underground parking. Thanks.

Fair enough. I have a case of the Draisaitls today. Just a little pissy.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s usually below ground level, no?

Usually but doesn’t have to be. Obviously I don’t see a parking garage going under the Calgary arena but that would be nothing compared to MSG.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Good. Now go get that inverted bowl.

Lol, we'll be lucky if we get this latest cancelled, already scaled back arena project at this point.

EDIT: In fact we may actually now get a scaled back version of this already scaled back arena project.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

As time goes on and prices for everything continue to rise I find myself caring less and less about the Flames getting a new arena. I can't afford to go to games in the old one, I definitely won't be able to use the new one

Oh yeah, I'm pretty much priced out of the new one, I already know that. So I will enjoy the old one as long as I can. Gonna go to a lot of Flames games in the next few years.

With most new arenas we're heading into the era of attending sports being a wealthy mans game. Hell, we're even kind of already there in older arenas like the Dome. But new arenas amp that up to an ever more absurd degree.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Lumber and Steel prices are down a lot since Oct 2021 so now may be the time to get early mill orders in. With a company that has the knowledge like CAA they can probably book mill runs quite easily.

I typed a big long reply, but decided some of it might be privileged market info I don't really want to share.

But basically it comes down to Construction costs have not dropped as much as material, because there are still too many active projects.

Material costs are actually slightly on the up trend at the moment, because of a weaker relative Canadian dollar and mills being busy enough not to panic and race to the bottom with prices.

CAA certainly would not be the ones buying the material nor would their contractors be anywhere near ready to buy, you don't really send an order to the mill saying, "I'd like some steel please" you have to at least loosely define what product category so they know what line they are selling the capacity for, what grades so they know what input material they need to buy...

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I already said on the last page - Platform parkade, BMO centre expansion, and the Rivers district master plan (ARP for Victoria Park).

Maybe not the thread for this but I agree with you on the parkade but what don’t you like about BMO or Rivers?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I already said on the last page - Platform parkade, BMO centre expansion, and the Rivers district master plan (ARP for Victoria Park).

If for the parkade, it being underutilized and a waste? Yeah I'd agree. But CMLC took that the mandate, and built it without overrun, and it's decent looking for a parkade.

For the other two, they're not even remotely finished. Why the miss on them?

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Why does the ice need to be at ground level? Build a giant C train station underneath the arena.

That'd be pretty wild, as I can only think of one other facility with such, and it's Penn Station/MSG. Looks like the Ramsay station will be a block north of the new event centre. Others have mentioned but a covered +15 like tunnel from the red-line would be ideal.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Oh yeah, I'm pretty much priced out of the new one, I already know that. So I will enjoy the old one as long as I can. Gonna go to a lot of Flames games in the next few years.

With most new arenas we're heading into the era of attending sports being a wealthy mans game. Hell, we're even kind of already there in older arenas like the Dome. But new arenas amp that up to an ever more absurd degree.

I agree with what you say on affordability but for me there is also a lack of divisional rivalry games. Three games against the Oilers is a joke. There needs to be more focus on games that add meaning to fans who attend or watch on the big screen.

[Enoch Root]

Remember, at one point we had 8 games against divisional opponents, and only saw teams from the other conference once every 3 years. That was a brutal idea. IMO, a home and home with every team is non-negotiable, it's a must. So let's start there.

Other conference - 16 home games (1 and 1)
Other division - 8 home games (1 and 1)
Own division - 14 home games (2 and 2)

That leaves 3 home and 3 away games - would you rather have those be rotational against the other division in the conference? Or have some divisional opponents be 6 gamers? I think those extra games being rotational in the other division makes the most sense. So...

Other conference: 16 home games
Other division: 11 home games
Own division: 14 home games

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Remember, at one point we had 8 games against divisional opponents, and only saw teams from the other conference once every 3 years. That was a brutal idea. IMO, a home and home with every team is non-negotiable, it's a must. So let's start there.

Other conference - 16 home games (1 and 1)
Other division - 8 home games (1 and 1)
Own division - 14 home games (2 and 2)

That leaves 3 home and 3 away games - would you rather have those be rotational against the other division in the conference? Or have some divisional opponents be 6 gamers? I think those extra games being rotational in the other division makes the most sense. So...

Other conference: 16 home games
Other division: 11 home games
Own division: 14 home games

At one point wasn't the schedule set up so that the other conference was only one game per year and they would rotate home ice advantage? I would be fine with that and have the extra 16 games against the own division.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Remember, at one point we had 8 games against divisional opponents, and only saw teams from the other conference once every 3 years. That was a brutal idea. IMO, a home and home with every team is non-negotiable, it's a must. So let's start there.

Other conference - 16 home games (1 and 1)
Other division - 8 home games (1 and 1)
Own division - 14 home games (2 and 2)

That leaves 3 home and 3 away games - would you rather have those be rotational against the other division in the conference? Or have some divisional opponents be 6 gamers? I think those extra games being rotational in the other division makes the most sense. So...

Other conference: 16 home games
Other division: 11 home games
Own division: 14 home games

The extra games should definitely be against the same division.

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

At one point wasn't the schedule set up so that the other conference was only one game per year and they would rotate home ice advantage? I would be fine with that and have the extra 16 games against the own division.

We had this and everyone hated it. It was terrible. No one wants to see their division opponents this often, especially if it's Minny or Arizona. And then only see the EC stars once every two years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

The extra games should definitely be against the same division.



We had this and everyone hated it. It was terrible. No one wants to see their division opponents this often, especially if it's Minny or Arizona. And then only see the EC stars once every two years.

Yeah, that was me. The Flames played rivals way too often - it got old. It actually reduced the excitement for those games. And you saw Sid once every two years, barring injury.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

We had this and everyone hated it. It was terrible. No one wants to see their division opponents this often, especially if it's Minny or Arizona. And then only see the EC stars once every two years.

At that time wasn't part of the issue that the star players were disproportionately in the east? Now there seems to be a bit more parity across the league. TV schedules and access to away games is much better. To me having the eastern teams here in Calgary once every two years is not a big concern.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Such as?

Well it’s been mentioned a few times already, but:

• Event Centre - I just find it underwhelming. I understand the reason for not going for an architectural statement like the Dome or Rogers Place, in lieu of something more human-focused, but honestly I’m not seeing that being maximized either. The building itself is architectural forgettable with its large monolithic surfaces, many of which will probably be further degraded with value engineering. With CMLC involved, I was hoping they would really push the public realm elements and pedestrian experience, but none of it looks particularly interesting or inviting as a gathering place (especially in the middle of February). Maybe it’s CSEC dragging it down, but overall it feels like a missed opportunity.

• Parkade - Every day I bike by this imposing monstrosity and it’s cheap metal siding and unfinished concrete. The whole projects feels like something we’d have done in the 70s. In a couple of decades, we’ll be calling for this thing to be demolished in favour of a real building.

• BMO - It’s fine. There’s only so much you can do with a huge-ass conference centre, but I was hoping for it to be less of a monolith from a pedestrian perspective. Renderings from high above look great, but at street level, I expect this to be another cold and imposing monster of a building. As it’s coming together, you can also see the surfacing has been VE’d down quite a lot (https://skyrisecities.com/forum/thre...2#post-1862405).

• Inglewood bridge - Again, it’s fine. Functional, yet bland…but I think a bit of a missed opportunity to be an architectural gateway to Inglewood.

• Stampede trail bike trail fiasco, where they seem to have forgotten everything they learned about bike infrastructure.

Apart from the Parkade, which I hate, there’s just a lot of “fine” here. I guess for me, CMLC set such a high standard out of the gate, I just expect better now. Riverwalk is personally my favourite piece of city infrastructure in the last few decades. The Library is stunning. Studio Bell is unique in shape and material. The first push of getting EV off the ground was massive and done really well.

I know there are a lot of factors involved (and I imagine having the Stampede in the mix complicates things), and CMLC has been great for the city at pushing things forward design wise…but the last few things just don’t hit the standard for me. I hope it’s an anomaly, not a trend.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

At that time wasn't part of the issue that the star players were disproportionately in the east? Now there seems to be a bit more parity across the league. TV schedules and access to away games is much better. To me having the eastern teams here in Calgary once every two years is not a big concern.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Why does the ice need to be at ground level? Build a giant C train station underneath the arena.

The C train station will be underground and across the street from the new arena on the north side.

[Vinny01]

I was never worried that this deal would not get done it was just how long would it take to get back going. Really hoping the deal is struck and they can break ground before the end of 2023

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

At that time wasn't part of the issue that the star players were disproportionately in the east? Now there seems to be a bit more parity across the league. TV schedules and access to away games is much better. To me having the eastern teams here in Calgary once every two years is not a big concern.

Are you a season ticket holder?

I did not like seeing all the divisional teams 8 times a year, plus playoffs, while only seeing the other half of the league once a year, and once every 2 years at home. It sucked. Virtually everyone was against it, and they finally corrected it.

There is no way they go back to that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I was never worried that this deal would not get done it was just how long would it take to get back going. Really hoping the deal is struck and they can break ground before the end of 2023

Agreed. There was never a doubt that it will get done, the problem was always that, the longer it took, the more the costs would rise, and the less likely we were to get a great building.

Calgary deserves - and can afford - a great building, an iconic building. But the way these negotiations have been going, with each failed iteration, the more stripped-down and bland the final result is likely to be.

My fear is that we end up with a really bland building that we have to pay for and live with for the next 30 years, and then no one will be happy - not the people who don't want any public funding, and not the people who did want a new building and are willing to pay the premiums to get something to be proud of.