Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Sorry, but I blame you guys. Some of us have had the good sense to put the likes of Yoho and other blatant morons on ignore many moons ago, but the ignore list **doesn’t work** when you fools keep QUOTING his posts.

Then how could we possibly know what’s going on around Twitter? I’ve never seen Sureloss break a hot new Cory Morgan take.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Yikes

"Blatant morons"? Nice touch. Maybe have a quick look in the mirror?

Yoho is a troll who does not engage in good faith arguments with anyone. Stick man is the same. There are plenty of right wing people who debate in these threads in good faith. Posters like Yoho detract from this.

[Ozy_Flame]

Discuss. Wrong answers only.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1582215353928933379

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Populism playbook. For populism to be an effective strategy, you need to capitalize on the ways the population feels ignored or unfairly treated (which is why Kenney bitched so much about equalization he helped create and why conservatives shake a finger at CERB or emergency measures they supported) and/or create new sources for those feelings (NDP was a media darling, unvaccinated where the most discriminated people ever, etc.).

Basically, the goal is to manipulate people who are easy to manipulate by giving them someone to be angry at for all the wrong in their life and a saviour, while ensuring any criticism of the saviour is just “the enemy being the enemy.” Doesn’t matter if it’s true, if the person pointing it out is part of the problem, or anything like that, because their targets want to believe. They’re giving purposeless people a made up purpose and making people who are just kind of stupid and bad at life the heroes in their own story.

They aren’t going after guys like CaptainCrunch, Ryan Coke, Zarley, or whatever other conservative posters who can think for themselves, they’re going after the Yohos and 14Romans of the province who are easy to rile up and manipulate. Get them angry or scared enough and they basically function like bots, repeating everything you feed into them and spreading it to a wider audience.

It’s why Yoho’s commentary is nonsensical or just constant editorials and why 14Romans was going on about COVID being a government conspiracy to control the population and how the hospitals were going to be full of people dying from the vaccine. Populists just put the slop out to their channels, the followers eat it up without even pausing to chew, and pretty soon it’s beyond their bubbles and flooding random social circles, social media, message boards, etc with whatever nonsense.

The thing that always gets me is the over-the-top victim mentality. It always comes across as so fake, and such a twisted perspective. It's like a bully crying about being bullied when their victim stands up to them. Sorry, I don't feel bad for you.

Discrimanted against? Oppressed by the media? The bubble these people live in is incredible

[SebC]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Sorry, but I blame you guys. Some of us have had the good sense to put the likes of Yoho and other blatant morons on ignore many moons ago, but the ignore list **doesn’t work** when you fools keep QUOTING his posts.

Look, often I don't engage. I recognize that it is easier to create BS than to refute it, and that you're unlikely to change a hardcore ideologue. It's just not worth trying.

But sometimes, they drop something so easily refutable, or perhaps self-contradictory, that I latch onto a sliver of hope that perhaps I can get them to see what they are doing, and achieve that without a lot of effort.

And if I fail, at least I've made it clear to everyone else.

[Mr.Coffee]

Right leaning people feel victimized because nobody is saying anything supportive of the UCP right now but that in and of itself should be fairly self-explanatory and deafening. There's just... nothing there? I have not seen any policy, quotes, ideas, or really anything coming from the UCP to support so... got nothin.

I moved, but if I lived in AB it would be an easy decision as to who to vote for. We still need schools and hospitals and actually, sadly I recently was at a Calgary based hospital and it was............ uhhh... they need funding lol.

Reason Smith is getting scrutiny is because she is Premier now, it's what happens regardless of who's in power these days in politics. That and her length history of public discourse on the radio and established position on a variety of topics over time- it's not like people just have no idea who she is or what she is about. It's all good, and it's all part of politics and at this stage I don't think anyone can really read too much into anything anyway until it becomes a real policy talking point.

Smartest thing for Smith to do at this stage would be to consider some left leaning policy anyway, then you'd lock up the fence sitters who are staring at her like she's gone crazy. Because, until she throws a bone to centrists they are going to vote NDP since you've sounded bat#### crazy so far and, I'm sorry, you need significant parts of Calgary to take the election. One can't just ignore the cities. Well, I supposed they can but they would be playing with fire.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Sorry, but I blame you guys. Some of us have had the good sense to put the likes of Yoho and other blatant morons on ignore many moons ago, but the ignore list **doesn’t work** when you fools keep QUOTING his posts.

What happened to scrolling past posts you don't like? It's what I do when I come across posts I don't like. The drama on this site is so over the top.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GGG

Yoho is a troll who does not engage in good faith arguments with anyone. Stick man is the same. There are plenty of right wing people who debate in these threads in good faith. Posters like Yoho detract from this.

In entire agreement with every word of this post, arranged accordingly.

Still irked by someone calling me a fool for engaging with these posters.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Yamer

In entire agreement with every word of this post, arranged accordingly.

Still irked by someone calling me a fool for engaging with these posters.

Yeah, that was pretty dumb, but I understand his frustration with posters like Yoho. Still though, just scroll through, it's not that hard, no reason to call a bunch of well meaning, nice posters a bunch of fools. That's the internet for ya, though.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Dion

What happened to scrolling past posts you don't like? It's what I do when I come across posts I don't like. The drama on this site is so over the top.

Politics has changed overall. You used to be able to have discussions with people and disagree. Afterwords, you could hangout and be good friends. One of my very best friends and I have that relationship where we argue over politics respectfully, never agree, and move along as friends anyway. Politicians used to be that way also.

Now it’s a fight to the death. When you look at things during Covid and the divisions it’s caused/causing, it’s not a good thing for society. It needs to become acceptable that people disagree and have differing opinions. Instead we have this “gotcha” mentality and the other people are “brainwashed” or “stupid”.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Slava

Politics has changed overall. You used to be able to have discussions with people and disagree. Afterwords, you could hangout and be good friends. One of my very best friends and I have that relationship where we argue over politics respectfully, never agree, and move along as friends anyway. Politicians used to be that way also.

Now it’s a fight to the death. When you look at things during Covid and the divisions it’s caused/causing, it’s not a good thing for society. It needs to become acceptable that people disagree and have differing opinions. Instead we have this “gotcha” mentality and the other people are “brainwashed” or “stupid”.

The difference is online/tv vs in person. I assume whoever you think is extreme on this message board is a normal human being in real life and you aren't going to get into a fist fight.

I assume Yoho doesn't communicate in only right wing tweet quotes in person.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The difference is online/tv vs in person. I assume whoever you think is extreme on this message board is a normal human being in real life and you aren't going to get into a fist fight.

I assume Yoho doesn't communicate in only right wing tweet quotes in person.

Maybe, but I think it goes back to the early 90’s or around that time. I feel like prior to that politicians themselves had a different relationship. They were political opponents, but probably friends away from the limelight. Things slowly got more divisive though. While you could probably see Decore and Klein go for a beer and chat, could you ever see Notley and Smith so that today? Federally, I feel like Broadbent/Turner/Mulroney could do that. There’s no way you’d get Pierre and Justin hanging out today though.

And it’s not just personality issues. It’s a fundamental change in how politics operates now. Everyone is so entrenched in their position that there’s no wiggle room and no compromise.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The difference is online/tv vs in person. I assume whoever you think is extreme on this message board is a normal human being in real life and you aren't going to get into a fist fight.

I assume Yoho doesn't communicate in only right wing tweet quotes in person.

Ya, that would be weird. If he's anything like the wingnuts who used to be in my office, they prefer to print the tweets and put them up in the kitchen.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Slava

Maybe, but I think it goes back to the early 90’s or around that time. I feel like prior to that politicians themselves had a different relationship. They were political opponents, but probably friends away from the limelight. Things slowly got more divisive though. While you could probably see Decore and Klein go for a beer and chat, could you ever see Notley and Smith so that today? Federally, I feel like Broadbent/Turner/Mulroney could do that. There’s no way you’d get Pierre and Justin hanging out today though.

And it’s not just personality issues. It’s a fundamental change in how politics operates now. Everyone is so entrenched in their position that there’s no wiggle room and no compromise.

I dunno. Its been a joke forever that every family together will turn into an argument when someone brings up politics.

I suspect all of those people could do that today - it's just they would be raked over the coals by supporters if they did it today so its not worth it.

[Fuzz]

With the looming threat of firing hanging over their heads, at least one Alberta Health Services board member has resigned.

In a Oct. 7 letter obtained by CBC News, Deborah Apps says she can't stand by waiting for Premier Danielle Smith to act on a promise to replace the 12-member board of directors with a commissioner who will report directly to the health minister and premier.

"I fear that the premier-elect's proposals will further destabilize the workplace environment for all health-care workers, adding more uncertainty when frontline staff and those who work tirelessly to lead and assist them require support and thoughtful oversight," Apps wrote in the letter, dated the day after United Conservative Party members voted Smith their new leader.

The plan has left health-system experts baffled by the purpose of replacing a board whose members were appointed by the UCP government and have little involvement in daily decision making.

University of Alberta political science professor John Church, who co-authored a book this year on Alberta's health-care system, said successive governments have increasingly centralized control of health care under one entity to prevent pushback from local boards.

He said the AHS board now is a government mouthpiece.

"I don't see how you could look at getting a more compliant group of people in place."

None of this flux is good for health care, said independent health policy consultant Steven Lewis. He calls AHS "the most complex organization in Alberta by an infinite factor."

"It's destructive," Church said. "And it's actually dangerous to be running a health care system the way that they're trying to run it."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...619597?cmp=rss

Conservatives insisted on creating this monster, removing power from local boards. I believe one of the catalysts was to prevent the Calgary Health Board from throwing their weight around, harming rural regions.

This new endevour is going to be a Smithtastrophe. All because she refuses to accept the science around covid, and is embracing selfish morons and their ridiculous conspiracies and ignorance.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Now it’s a fight to the death. When you look at things during Covid and the divisions it’s caused/causing, it’s not a good thing for society. It needs to become acceptable that people disagree and have differing opinions. Instead we have this “gotcha” mentality and the other people are “brainwashed” or “stupid”.

Originally Posted by Slava

And it’s not just personality issues. It’s a fundamental change in how politics operates now. Everyone is so entrenched in their position that there’s no wiggle room and no compromise.

If it’s not brainwashing or capitalizing on ignorance/poor media literacy/etc then what do you think it is? Why do you think politics have changed and people have become entrenched?

You’ve basically discarded the two most commonly cited reasons for the political shift so I’m curious what your theory is.

[Fuzz]

If your news sources, like Rebel, The Western Standard, and True North purposefully mislead you, and you believe them, then you are in fact brainwashed. It's a fair term to use. If you ignore facts you are presented with and make up your own reality to justify being awful, you are in fact stupid. The terms feel appropriate to use. Or are these people too big of snowflakes to be named exactly what they are? If you don't want to be called stupid, don't be stupid. Seems pretty straight forward.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by T-Dog

There are some interesting and insightful comments here on how conservative parties have changed. The policies that attracted me to the right-wing parties in the past seem to have changed (personal responsibility, law and order, fiscal prudence, values of working hard and taking responsibility for your own lot in life, etc). The yahoos that were involved in the trucker convoy (lawlessness, conspiracy theories, selfishness with no empathy for others) are not a group that I identify with at all. However, it seems like the conservative parties have decided to shift to these groups, which leaves me feeling like I don't have a home. It would have seemed inconceivable to me 10 years ago that I would vote for an NDP party, but that is the only sane choice in Alberta at this point in our history.

I read this and realized it sums up my feeling very well too. I've voted some form of conservative every election since I turned 18 (still remember the 1988 federal election being my first one). PC, Reform, UPC, CPC, I think I may have even votes Social Credit once as a form of protest. But today's UPC leaves me in a very bad spot personally as traditionally Liberal and NDP policies are very much different than my personal values in many ways. I too feel like I don't have a political home anymore. I also realized last night that I need to differentiate between the federal and provincial parties more when voting. For example there is no way I could ever consider voting NDP federally (or even Liberal for that matter) but there perhaps is a way I could convince myself to go NDP provincially. It probably depends on their platform, if there are some non-starter policies in there then they are off the table too and I don't know what I'll do.

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...619597?cmp=rss

Conservatives insisted on creating this monster, removing power from local boards. I believe one of the catalysts was to prevent the Calgary Health Board from throwing their weight around, harming rural regions.

This new endevour is going to be a Smithtastrophe. because she refuses to accept the science around covid, and is embracing selfish morons and their ridiculous conspiracies and ignorance.

Chefs kiss

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

I read this and realized it sums up my feeling very well too. I've voted some form of conservative every election since I turned 18 (still remember the 1988 federal election being my first one). PC, Reform, UPC, CPC, I think I may have even votes Social Credit once as a form of protest. But today's UPC leaves me in a very bad spot personally as traditionally Liberal and NDP policies are very much different than my personal values in many ways. I too feel like I don't have a political home anymore. I also realized last night that I need to differentiate between the federal and provincial parties more when voting. For example there is no way I could ever consider voting NDP federally (or even Liberal for that matter) but there perhaps is a way I could convince myself to go NDP provincially. It probably depends on their platform, if there are some non-starter policies in there then they are off the table too and I don't know what I'll do.

Willing to share an example of a non-starter policy?