Any engineers here?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Zarley

What a load of bureaucratic protectionist nonsense from APEGA. Are they going to go after train engineers next? What about chief engineers at manufacturing plants? Power engineers?

Now we the Architect's Association to go after software architects!

The two references of power engineers and train engineers are specifically listed as acceptable uses of the term.

Essentially all 3 uses date back to early steam boilers and stopping them from exploding.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Zarley

What a load of bureaucratic protectionist nonsense from APEGA. Are they going to go after train engineers next? What about chief engineers at manufacturing plants? Power engineers?

Now we the Architect's Association to go after software architects!

This is starting to read almost verbatim from the Linkedin comments.

My question though is why would any company want to dig in their heels over this? Is a software engineers job duties that much different than a software developer? And would somebody looking for a job see “developer” and not pursue it?

[Lubicon]

From the article linked below it sounds like it's not just APEGA who have taken issue with this, most/all the equivalent bodies in other provinces also have the same concerns.

From the article:

An open letter signed by the leaders of each provincial and territorial engineering regulator in Canada in July said use of "software engineer," "computer engineer" and other information technology titles with the engineer suffix is prohibited everywhere in Canada unless the person using it is licensed by one of their regulatory groups.

Engineers Canada, the national body for the provincial and territorial associations, also points out on its website that there is legal precedent on the matter. An Alberta judge ordered an injunction against someone not registered with APEGA who was using "software engineer" online in 2019.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...itle-1.6617742

[photon]

If real engineers were anything like the software engineers I know bridges would be built and open to the public to see how many cars they could hold.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This is starting to read almost verbatim from the Linkedin comments.

My question though is why would any company want to dig in their heels over this? Is a software engineers job duties that much different than a software developer? And would somebody looking for a job see “developer” and not pursue it?

Yeah this doesn't need to be an issue.

Just call the job "software developer" and be done with it. It's always felt a bit disingenuous when some dude that taught himself Javascript in 6 months starts calling himself an engineer when he lands a job.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I’m an engineer who for years worked as and used the title ‘Software Architect’. I’m assuming there’s an equivalent Architect association I would be at odds with.

Better watch out - the AAA will be knocking at your door.

We real architects are fed up with being recruited on Linkedin for these phoney software architect positions!

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This is starting to read almost verbatim from the Linkedin comments.

My question though is why would any company want to dig in their heels over this? Is a software engineers job duties that much different than a software developer? And would somebody looking for a job see “developer” and not pursue it?

You could also ask why the APEGA would dig in their heels over such a trivial issue. Would a software engineer ever need to stamp a design? Is there a public safety risk to allowing the status quo?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Zarley

You could also ask why the APEGA would dig in their heels over such a trivial issue. Would a software engineer ever need to stamp a design? Is there a public safety risk to allowing the status quo?

No, software engineers don't generally need to stamp drawings.

Public safety can absolutely be at risk however if the status quo is allowed.

[Galakanokis]

In radio and TV there was always the Chief Engineer. I assume it dates back a long ways but now it is more like Head of Technology or Director of Technology etc. I never liked the term or used it when I was promoted to "Chief Engineer" but the guy I took over for it was a big deal to him. Very odd since we were not engineers.

I typically see developer in job titles, software developer or pipeline developer.

An old timer from a tv station I worked at nearly 30 years ago once said that basically all an engineer is is somebody that comes up with a solution to a problem. The rest is bureaucracy.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by galakanokis

…
an old timer from a tv station i worked at nearly 30 years ago once said that basically all an engineer is is somebody that comes up with a technical design solution to a problem, which involves and affects public safety and/or supervises others who do. The rest is bureaucracy.

fyp

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by _Q_

No, software engineers don't generally need to stamp drawings.

Then why on earth would they need a P.Eng?

Originally Posted by _Q_

Public safety can absolutely be at risk however if the status quo is allowed.

How so?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Then why on earth would they need a P.Eng?



How so?

Building an app that adds filters to photos or scans QR codes probably doesn't put the public in danger. Building a social media app or anything that requires the transfer of sensitive information like banking info or social insurance numbers, can have huge implications if it's not handled properly. Likewise, working on the software in an aircraft or on a medical device.... I very damn well want someone that's qualified to work on that rather than someone with a certification from Lighthouse Labs.

In the first instance, I don't really care who's building those apps, and likewise it would be silly to call that individual an engineer. In the last example, I sure as hell want most of the people working on that project to be engineers and I would want their work to be checked by a highly qualified P.Eng.

[photon]

And the thing is "public danger" is a sliding scale.. What about unsecure web cameras that allow people to hack into them and invade your family's privacy? Services that are setup and then hijacked to deliver malware to tons of people? IoT devices that are easily used in botnets because they're so poorly designed and easy to hack?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by photon

And the thing is "public danger" is a sliding scale.. What about unsecure web cameras that allow people to hack into them and invade your family's privacy? Services that are setup and then hijacked to deliver malware to tons of people? IoT devices that are easily used in botnets because they're so poorly designed and easy to hack?

That's a very good point. Which is why such devices should be designed and certified by professional electrical engineers specializing in electronics. What many forget or ignore is the aspect of standards of practice governing the engineering profession. Being technically capable of putting something together is only one component of the practice.

[TorqueDog]

APEGA can go piss up a rope, this was decided 19 years ago:
https://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-in...e-debacle/4133

Under the decision, IT professionals cannot call themselves professional engineers (P.Eng), he explained. “But someone who is a systems engineer representative, certified network engineer — you know, there are tons of those titles in the IT industry — (can use the word engineer in their professional title).”

No one is confusing a software engineer for a P.Eng. This is APEGA wanting more f--king money.

[Mr.Coffee]

Whichever path you choose feel free to skip whatever class it is that will teach you that you can do everybody else's jobs and that you are smarter than everybody else when you graduate, and try to stick to some kind of semblance of humility.

Also, don't ignore the importance to be able to communicate your points effectively, and if you have options you may want to think about writing / English courses.

The best engineers are the humble ones who work hard and can communicate.

[TorqueDog]

Probably worth noting the OP is from 2015.

[speede5]

Does Aircraft Maintenance Engineer count?

[Redliner]

Interesting thread. I am a locomotive (train) engineer - maybe the only one here? Glad to know that the title falls under APEGA’s list of acceptable uses.

[ZedMan]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

That's a very good point. Which is why such devices should be designed and certified by professional electrical engineers specializing in electronics. What many forget or ignore is the aspect of standards of practice governing the engineering profession. Being technically capable of putting something together is only one component of the practice.

LOL, as if the average EE has a damn clue about the attack surface of an IP camera exposed to the internet.