09-30-2022, 08:07 PM
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#8141
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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09-30-2022, 09:07 PM
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#8142
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Lyman is cut off for all but small groups of Russians on foot bugging out, the road out is within small arms and arty range, so no resupply is getting through, chances are the Ukraine army lets the Russians leave their weapons and walk away in small groups at this stage
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The Following User Says Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
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09-30-2022, 09:45 PM
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#8143
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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09-30-2022, 09:48 PM
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#8144
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
Lyman is cut off for all but small groups of Russians on foot bugging out, the road out is within small arms and arty range, so no resupply is getting through, chances are the Ukraine army lets the Russians leave their weapons and walk away in small groups at this stage
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Why? So they can walk away and rejoin other Russian troops?
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09-30-2022, 09:52 PM
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#8145
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwkayaker
Why? So they can walk away and rejoin other Russian troops?
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Because it will cost less Ukrainian lives and Ukraine has less lives to spare and it is also a small number of Russians as well, the bulk will still be stuck in Lyman
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09-30-2022, 11:42 PM
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#8146
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
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I think he's just joking. That's not a HIMARS in the picture and that's a National Guard plane. Every source I've seen since the announcement is that the 18 new ones are an order from the manufacturer.
Which isn't necessarily a big deal. For one, it doesn't preclude more being sent from US stockpiles in the meantime. And by paying for these now it means Ukraine will be getting these units regardless of what happens in the US (i.e. if a future government becomes less supportive of Ukraine, they'll still get them).
And secondly, the 22 they have can probably cover most of the front. And it sounds like ammo is the real bottleneck anyway. Annual production of GMLRS rounds is about 9,000 right now, and each unit can fire 6 at a time. So if they had 40-50 units, they'd be burning through a year's production in pretty short order. For instance, firing half full salvos of 3 rounds, only once a day from each of 50 units would use 9K rounds in 2 months.
The US has stockpiles (which is where most of the ammo to date has come from), but not that many rounds. I've seen estimates of 30-40K in US inventory. So there's no real benefit to sending a bunch of HIMARS units over given the realistic supply of ammo. You'd have to train a bunch of soldiers to fire a couple of missiles a week.
Here's a good thread from July explaining why just sending over dozens of units doesn't make a whole lot of sense:
https://twitter.com/user/status/1551668596803358724
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10-01-2022, 03:39 AM
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#8147
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwkayaker
Why? So they can walk away and rejoin other Russian troops?
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You quite often don't want to force the enemy to make a last stand, it's costly. Pretty sure there's likely Sun Tzu -quote for this, but I'm too lazy to dig it up 
Additionally, Russia isn't short on men, they're short on equipment and logistics. Those men are just a drain on logistics, so it's better the Russians are feeding them than the Ukrainians.
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10-01-2022, 03:46 AM
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#8148
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I just read the most convincing argument on why it was Russia that blew up those pipes, and I'll share it. It's simple, but convincing.
If it was NOT Russia that had blew up those pipes, they'd be foaming at the mouth and threatening with retaliation, or had retaliated already.
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10-01-2022, 07:35 AM
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#8149
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Franchise Player
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Lyman is under Ukrainian control.
Russian forces have completely withdrawn from the settlement.
Remaining pockets of resistance are being removed.
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10-01-2022, 08:01 AM
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#8150
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
I just read the most convincing argument on why it was Russia that blew up those pipes, and I'll share it. It's simple, but convincing.
If it was NOT Russia that had blew up those pipes, they'd be foaming at the mouth and threatening with retaliation, or had retaliated already.
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This was my thinking exactly. Why the timid snarky accusations of America doing it? They'd be stark raving mad
Last edited by Street Pharmacist; 10-01-2022 at 08:58 AM.
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10-01-2022, 08:22 AM
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#8151
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
I just read the most convincing argument on why it was Russia that blew up those pipes, and I'll share it. It's simple, but convincing.
If it was NOT Russia that had blew up those pipes, they'd be foaming at the mouth and threatening with retaliation, or had retaliated already.
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This wouldn't be the first time Putin has bombed something in Russia to justify an escalation of military action and to try and rally the people behind it.
__________________
The Delhi police have announced the formation of a crack team dedicated to nabbing the elusive 'Monkey Man' and offered a reward for his -- or its -- capture.
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10-01-2022, 08:47 AM
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#8152
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
Lyman is under Ukrainian control.
Russian forces have completely withdrawn from the settlement.
Remaining pockets of resistance are being removed.
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Doesn’t this look bad for Russia a day after they claim the territory? Why would you declare something as your territory that you are going to lose 1 day later.
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10-01-2022, 08:58 AM
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#8153
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
Doesn’t this look bad for Russia a day after they claim the territory? Why would you declare something as your territory that you are going to lose 1 day later.
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Didn't you hear? It's a regrouping to achieve the objectives of securing the Donbas.
Apparently a lot of the Russian troops in Lyman fled in the middle of the night on foot into the forest leaving by most of their equipment behind trying to escape towards the road from Zarichna to Kreminna, which the Russians still control for now. Ukrainians that ambushed the lightly armed fleeing Russians called it a slaughter.
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10-01-2022, 09:03 AM
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#8154
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
Lyman is under Ukrainian control.
Russian forces have completely withdrawn from the settlement.
Remaining pockets of resistance are being removed.
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The pictures and videos of the road they withdrew on is NSFW. If you're wondering why Ukraine let them leave, you'll see. Instead of cutting off the road they just hammered the road with artillery and small arms fire and let the few who could survive through. They ain't going back into duty want time soon and it cost the Ukrainians zero food or men. At least a thousand dead or injured by some estimates and tons of destroyed equipment
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10-01-2022, 09:21 AM
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#8155
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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10-01-2022, 10:21 AM
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#8156
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Franchise Player
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And not once have a seen a warning label about my airbase exploding on a cigarette pack. Who knew this was the greatest danger all along?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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10-01-2022, 10:41 AM
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#8157
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
You quite often don't want to force the enemy to make a last stand, it's costly. Pretty sure there's likely Sun Tzu -quote for this, but I'm too lazy to dig it up |
"When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard." -- SunTzu
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10-01-2022, 11:40 AM
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#8158
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Burnaby
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10-01-2022, 11:55 AM
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#8159
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasi
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That blog is a brutal read.
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10-01-2022, 11:59 AM
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#8160
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameOn
Didn't you hear? It's a regrouping to achieve the objectives of securing the Donbas.
Apparently a lot of the Russian troops in Lyman fled in the middle of the night on foot into the forest leaving by most of their equipment behind trying to escape towards the road from Zarichna to Kreminna, which the Russians still control for now. Ukrainians that ambushed the lightly armed fleeing Russians called it a slaughter.
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THis blog has been making the rounds today. A personal view from I believe an American "volunteer" fighting for Ukraine. A slaughter is putting it lightly. This is the stuff nightmares are made of.
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I have never seen so many dead, soon to be dead, and wounded people in my life. People begging for help, but no way we can help them. We have little to help them with, a small medical kit each, no morphine, and no time to render any kind of useful aid. No idea if they will live or die. You just keep moving.
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Quote:
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Lots, just us, maybe 140 dead Russians. Like hunting squirrels in a pecan orchard.
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Quote:
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I came away shaking like a leaf, not scared, just wired and sick of killing people.
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https://ukrainevolunteer297689472.wo...s-a-slaughter/
Lots of crazy posts from his experiences.
https://ukrainevolunteer297689472.wordpress.com/
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