Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Major Major]

Oof... They're really just going to hand it to him again, aren't they?

[Northendzone]

that MP is wrong. the carbon pricing is working and in addition to that, 80% of Canadian household get more back in rebates than they pay in carbon pricing

this tax is the holy grail of taxes that somehow pays more back to msot than they pay in.

it is like the studies for the S@x panther cologne from anchorman that suggest the cologne works 60% of the time all the time

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Uhm. Wow. The MP in the video. NotSureIfSerious

Jesus. How dumb can someone be

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by calculoso

https://twitter.com/user/status/1574849785294688259

I mean fair play to her, she stumbled out of the gates, but held it together ramping up the indignation ending on a high...........

[Ozy_Flame]

This is what happens when your political representation is effectively decided by who is the most popular kid on the playground, rather than on who is most skilled or qualified.

[starseed]

This is a calculated move on PPs part to get his shot at power sooner. The Liberals will now be champing at the bit to drop the writ.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

that MP is wrong. the carbon pricing is working and in addition to that, 80% of Canadian household get more back in rebates than they pay in carbon pricing

this tax is the holy grail of taxes that somehow pays more back to msot than they pay in.

it is like the studies for the S@x panther cologne from anchorman that suggest the cologne works 60% of the time all the time

The carbon tax is nothing more then theft. Canadian fuel and home heating contributes only a fraction of a percent to global emissions. If Canadians completely stopped driving and heating their homes it would not have any effect on climate change. All the carbon tax does is make everything more expensive for Canadians.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by StickMan

The carbon tax is nothing more then theft. Canadian fuel and home heating contributes only a fraction of a percent to global emissions. If Canadians completely stopped driving and heating their homes it would not have any effect on climate change. All the carbon tax does is make everything more expensive for Canadians.

Except that the majority of Canadians get more back in the form or a rebate-why do you always forget that part???

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by StickMan

The carbon tax is nothing more then theft. Canadian fuel and home heating contributes only a fraction of a percent to global emissions. If Canadians completely stopped driving and heating their homes it would not have any effect on climate change. All the carbon tax does is make everything more expensive for Canadians.

And then you get it rebated...

[Northendzone]

like i said, it is the holy grail of taxes as it rebates more than most pay into it.

Estimates from the Liberal PArty of Canada are never wrong (regardless of what the PBO says) and I for one thank them for lifting the boats of me 80% of my fellow canadians

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by StickMan

The carbon tax is nothing more then theft. Canadian fuel and home heating contributes only a fraction of a percent to global emissions. If Canadians completely stopped driving and heating their homes it would not have any effect on climate change. All the carbon tax does is make everything more expensive for Canadians.

1) We are a small part of the problem, therefore we shouldn't help solve the problem is a stupid position. We are a larger portion of the problem than our population should be, we contribute more per person than most of the world, so we should do our part. By your logic everyone can opt out of responsibility

Canada: Well on an absolute scale we aren't the problem, so why should we do anything about it
China: on a per capita basis, we aren't the problem, so why should we do anything about it
Great, no one is part of the problem, so I guess there either isn't a problem, or there's no way to solve it. Job done!

2) You clearly don't understand how the carbon tax/rebates work

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

1) We are a small part of the problem, therefore we shouldn't help solve the problem is a stupid position. We are a larger portion of the problem than our population should be, we contribute more per person than most of the world, so we should do our part. By your logic everyone can opt out of responsibility

Canada: Well on an absolute scale we aren't the problem, so why should we do anything about it
China: on a per capita basis, we aren't the problem, so why should we do anything about it
Great, no one is part of the problem, so I guess there either isn't a problem, or there's no way to solve it. Job done!

2) You clearly don't understand how the carbon tax/rebates work

I think its more a question of how the carbon tax is effective vs how it works.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Exactly. Why collect the tax and then hand it back? I’m sure there are other ways to penalize polluters without a cash transfer between citizens and government. I for one think it’s odd.

Who’s paying carbon taxes on the war in Ukraine? The pipeline leak? The Nuke plant damage? The volcanic eruptions?

I agree we can try and do better. But the working class shouldn’t front the money only to get it back. It seems like a weird scam or something

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I think its more a question of how the carbon tax is effective vs how it works.

Several ways the carbon tax works/is effective:

1) a perceived increase in the price of things, like say gasoline, incentivize people to use less, like say take transit (I'll grant this doesn't work for home heating, but if people turn the thermostat down 1 degree because their bill is high that still helps, inches make miles and all that). Most households get their money back, and in some cases even more, so they've made choices to reduce GHG emissions without actually paying for them.

2) revenue from the carbon tax is used for grants to pay for projects that will reduce GHGs. For example the company I work for is spending ~$1.5MM for upgrades to compressor engines that will reduce methane slip, and improve fuel efficiency, thus reducing both our GHG emissions and our carbon tax bill. Most of that $1.5 MM is being paid for by grants to do these sorts of things, and that is $ that is coming from carbon tax revenue. So the carbon tax is going directly to projects that will reduce GHG emissions.


But of course you already knew those things. Surely you wouldn't complain about a program that you didn't understand the general workings of.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

Exactly. Why collect the tax and then hand it back? I’m sure there are other ways to penalize polluters without a cash transfer between citizens and government. I for one think it’s odd.

Who’s paying carbon taxes on the war in Ukraine? The pipeline leak? The Nuke plant damage? The volcanic eruptions?

I agree we can try and do better. But the working class shouldn’t front the money only to get it back. It seems like a weird scam or something

I'm pretty sure you get the refund before payout, so you aren't "fronting" the money.

It works in a simple way. You pay carbon tax, on, say gas for your vehicle. If you drive less, you pay less. If you find commuting in your F-99950 costing too much in gas(partly due to the tax) maybe you trade it for a Civic. Boom emissions reduced.

My house had crappy insulation, and I paid carbon tax on natural gas. So this summer I reinsulated. I now save money on heating, and use less. Emissions reduced.

The benefit to citizens is you get a rebate, so the less you spend towards the carbon tax, the more of a net benefit it is to you. I bike to work, drive a reasonably sized vehicle, live in a reasonably sized house, and probably come out ahead, and it also all contributes to reduced emissions. This is only a small portion of how the tax works, but a good example.

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by aaronck

Except that the majority of Canadians get more back in the form or a rebate-why do you always forget that part???

Do they get the GST back? Do they get the increases on the cost of food and every item that is transported back? It is a scam.

The Canadian carbon tax is a solution to a problem we don't have, we aren't a significant emitter. If you want to fix climate, target the big emitters.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm pretty sure you get the refund before payout, so you aren't "fronting" the money.

It works in a simple way. You pay carbon tax, on, say gas for your vehicle. If you drive less, you pay less. If you find commuting in your F-99950 costing too much in gas(partly due to the tax) maybe you trade it for a Civic. Boom emissions reduced.

My house had crappy insulation, and I paid carbon tax on natural gas. So this summer I reinsulated. I now save money on heating, and use less. Emissions reduced.

The benefit to citizens is you get a rebate, so the less you spend towards the carbon tax, the more of a net benefit it is to you. I bike to work, drive a reasonably sized vehicle, live in a reasonably sized house, and probably come out ahead, and it also all contributes to reduced emissions. This is only a small portion of how the tax works, but a good example.

I agree you can save money by reducing your personal carbon footprint. Which people should be mindful of. But I’m like you and I try and be practical in general when it comes to life. I still don’t want to hand money over so I can get a rebate. And that goes with anything I buy. Luxury taxes for spendy people and corporations that pollute should be more of the the target for carbon tax. I don’t know what happens to all the money and I’m not sure I want to understand, but making it more expensive to live for the general tax paying citizen shouldn’t be the route taken in my opinion. We’ll see how it goes though because it’s not going to go away.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Several ways the carbon tax works/is effective:



1) a perceived increase in the price of things, like say gasoline, incentivize people to use less, like say take transit (I'll grant this doesn't work for home heating, but if people turn the thermostat down 1 degree because their bill is high that still helps, inches make miles and all that). Most households get their money back, and in some cases even more, so they've made choices to reduce GHG emissions without actually paying for them.



2) revenue from the carbon tax is used for grants to pay for projects that will reduce GHGs. For example the company I work for is spending ~$1.5MM for upgrades to compressor engines that will reduce methane slip, and improve fuel efficiency, thus reducing both our GHG emissions and our carbon tax bill. Most of that $1.5 MM is being paid for by grants to do these sorts of things, and that is $ that is coming from carbon tax revenue. So the carbon tax is going directly to projects that will reduce GHG emissions.





But of course you already knew those things. Surely you wouldn't complain about a program that you didn't understand the general workings of.

Out of curiosity, is this related to the ERF funding from Natural Resources Canada?

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by aaronck

Except that the majority of Canadians get more back in the form or a rebate-why do you always forget that part???

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

1) We are a small part of the problem, therefore we shouldn't help solve the problem is a stupid position. We are a larger portion of the problem than our population should be, we contribute more per person than most of the world, so we should do our part. By your logic everyone can opt out of responsibility

Canada: Well on an absolute scale we aren't the problem, so why should we do anything about it
China: on a per capita basis, we aren't the problem, so why should we do anything about it
Great, no one is part of the problem, so I guess there either isn't a problem, or there's no way to solve it. Job done!

2) You clearly don't understand how the carbon tax/rebates work

Per Capita is a stupid argument when the problem is global emissions. It only matters where the majority of emissions come from. A guy sitting on an island having a camp fire has bigger per Capita emissions on that island then anyone in China, should we focus on putting out his fire?

I think you don't understand how the carbon tax is not about reducing emissions, it is about tax revenue for Trudeau. A real climate plan would look at the global problem areas and try to help.

[flamesfever]

Think about it. Do you cut down on your driving because of the carbon tax?

The carbon tax is just a make work project for the bureaucrats...just like the old gun registration. It costs a lot of time and money to carrying it out, and achieves very little.

In the long run what is going to disappear first...the tax or the rebate. You can bet it will be the latter, if the Liberals stay in power.