Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I prefer the 50% weighting because it helps kids prepare for what university is like. It also helps guard against grade inflation and inconsistencies in grading between difference schools.

I suppose universities will just start asking for the test scores instead of the class grades

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I suppose universities will just start asking for the test scores instead of the class grades

That seems like the fair timbits solution. Let everyone have their medal at the end of the season, tell everyone they passed. But start holding real tryouts to make the team when you get up to U8 or Novice, or whatever they are going to call it now. Sure it devalues to education of our high school graduates, but companies are already doing that by asking for a post secondary education on the application of anyone who works with a computer at all.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Is this some way of making Alberta high school students inadmissible to post grad outside of Alberta?

Alberta is the oddball with a provincially administered diploma exam. Marks on these exams are lower than the marks coming in so this likely helps Alberta students compete rather than hurts them.

[Macman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Thanks for that summary, appreciate the time you put into it. Shandro is a #### stain, but I guess he's doing a good job representing the UCP for all they are.

How do comments like this help with discourse in discussions? Why don’t you go run for office since you’re always so opinionated?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Macman

How do comments like this help with discourse in discussions? Why don’t you go run for office since you’re always so opinionated?

Fuzz needs their own outrage thread. It seems to be bleeding into every thread these days.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I prefer the 50% weighting because it helps kids prepare for what university is like. It also helps guard against grade inflation and inconsistencies in grading between different schools.

And the school boards that benefit the most from the weight reduction are the ones that do the worst job with the curriculum (a.k.a. the UCP base?)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Macman

How do comments like this help with discourse in discussions? Why don’t you go run for office since you’re always so opinionated?

…did you just ask how talking like this helps talking in talking?

Amazing.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GGG

Alberta is the oddball with a provincially administered diploma exam. Marks on these exams are lower than the marks coming in so this likely helps Alberta students compete rather than hurts them.

Yeah, everyone always seems to think Alberta should be more like other provinces, which in this case would be no provincially administered exam at all.

I think the diplomas are great. They are well written tests and are objectively fair between schools/teachers because everyone writes the same one, so it's a fair comparison for university entrance.

It also helps keep teachers teaching the actual curriculum, and generally adds oversight to the system. Other provinces should be using Alberta as an example here, imo.

[81MC]

Am I misunderstanding, or is the UCP actually planning on getting rid of the road tests for class 5 and 6 licenses?

Dear god, please tell me I’m misunderstanding.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Am I misunderstanding, or is the UCP actually planning on getting rid of the road tests for class 5 and 6 licenses?

Dear god, please tell me I’m misunderstanding.

Just the GDL test. Which has always has been dumb.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yeah, everyone always seems to think Alberta should be more like other provinces, which in this case would be no provincially administered exam at all.

I think the diplomas are great. They are well written tests and are objectively fair between schools/teachers because everyone writes the same one, so it's a fair comparison for university entrance.

It also helps keep teachers teaching the actual curriculum, and generally adds oversight to the system. Other provinces should be using Alberta as an example here, imo.

I've been going back and forth on whether or not I should respond to this topic, but here it goes...

I worked as a high school teacher in a rural Alberta district for 11 years until just recently. There has been a slow erosion over the last decade of the importance/value of the Diploma Exams. First, the government lifted the time constraints. Students used to be given a set amount of time to complete the test (say 2.5 hours). As a social studies teacher I can tell you that about 10%-15% of kids struggled to finish in this time. So the government, removed the time constraint and starting giving every student double time. So if they had 2.5 hours before, they now have 5 hours. Depending on the course, some Diploma Exams provide students with 6 hours. Next, the government lowered the grade value of the Diploma Exams from 50% to 30%. This put a much higher value on the course work.

I taught when it was 2.5 hours and 50% and I taught when it was 5 hours and 30%. Overall, I can tell you that I have not worked with or talked to a teacher that supported the changes. These moves were likely done in the name of reducing stress for students, but it has generally lessened the stress to such a level that many of my students don't even care about the Diploma. A few years ago, before the changes I would almost always see students give an honest effort in the course at the end to ensure success on the Diploma. This meant that students who struggled with school would buckle down for the last 2 weeks and give it their all. In my 22 semesters as a Grade 12 teacher, I never saw a student fail because the Diploma brought them down. It was always the other way around. I saw kids with 45% get 55% on the Diploma and pass.

This devaluing of the Diploma has created a system where kids figure out that they only need to get a 60% in the class to ensure they pass overall. I've now had kids ask me when they have a decent mark in the class if they even need to write the Diploma.

It's frustrating because my district places a huge amount of importance on the Diploma Exam. For instance, we (teachers) are generally expected to have our class marks (the one I give the kids) be within a range of 5% of their Diploma Exam mark. This was the goal, to ensure teachers weren't inflating marks. This was very easy to achieve before the government instituted the changes. I could usually tell you with very good accuracy what a kid was going to get on the Diploma.

Now it's a crap shoot. I have kids who get 80% in the class get a 30% on the Diploma, and it makes me look like a terrible teacher. The reality is, the kid knew he didn't need to try or get a good mark so he decided to just phone it in.

In a perfect world I'd rather see the more high stakes version of the Diploma Exam stay for the academic (-1) classes, because this will likely be a better standard for students who want to go on to Uni. Alternatively, I could support a lesser stakers version of the Diploma Exam for students in the non-academic (-2) classes since they are more likely enter the workforce, get a trade, etc.

I don't know the perfect outcome, but what I witnessed was a complete shift in the importance of the Diploma Exams to the point that they are now viewed as a joke by many of the students. We have students in my school who sit there for the full 5-6 hours. Some fall asleep, some day dream. Alternatively, some finish the test as quick as they can and just choose "C" the whole way down the scan sheet.

I often feel now, that I stress WAY more about the Diploma than the students do. Because I'm going to be judged by these results, regardless of if that's valuable or not.

[photon]

Originally Posted by GGG

Alberta is the oddball with a provincially administered diploma exam. Marks on these exams are lower than the marks coming in so this likely helps Alberta students compete rather than hurts them.

Someone told me that Universities already weight Alberta grads differently, basically adding some to their grades when comparing to everyone else because of the heavy weighting of the diplomas.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Macman

How do comments like this help with discourse in discussions? Why don’t you go run for office since you’re always so opinionated?

Guy puts in massive effort to make a lengthy post to educate people.
Guy 2 thanks him for it, with an opinion of his own attached.
Guy 3 throws hissy fit over guy 2. Wtf?
Guy 4 is confused so makes passive aggressive post (meta bitches).

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

I've been going back and forth on whether or not I should respond to this topic, but here it goes...

Yeah, my wife teaches an academic subject in high school and feels the same way.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I suppose universities will just start asking for the test scores instead of the class grades

Some universities are already doing that in a roundabout way. They measure the average grade a school awards against that school’s results in departmental exams to arrive at an inflation value for that school. Then they apply that value to all applicants from the school to come up with an adjusted grade for those applicants.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Fuzz needs their own outrage thread. It seems to be bleeding into every thread these days.

The number of their comments that go beyond typical online griping to express hatred in violent terms is getting concerning.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The number of their comments that go beyond typical online griping to express hatred in violent terms is getting concerning.

Calling Shandro, who has done a #### job a ####stain is violent? lol.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Some universities are already doing that in a roundabout way. They measure the average grade a school awards against that school’s results in departmental exams to arrive at an inflation value for that school. Then they apply that value to all applicants from the school to come up with an adjusted grade for those applicants.

I wonder how this works for out of province schools. I had decent grades in HS, my diploma exams certainly drug those down a bit.

Some schools like Western, Dal, UBC are looking for 80%+ averages, which outside of a few courses, i wasnt able to maintain in the diploma exam

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I wonder how this works for out of province schools. I had decent grades in HS, my diploma exams certainly drug those down a bit.

Some schools like Western, Dal, UBC are looking for 80%+ averages, which outside of a few courses, i wasnt able to maintain in the diploma exam

I'd be curious to know how common that is. My diploma scores were meaningfully higher than my class marks (~5% on average iirc). It's easier to be perfect/'on' for a few hours than it is for a whole semester. They were weighted at 50% when I graduated, so 20% would have pulled my average down.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The number of their comments that go beyond typical online griping to express hatred in violent terms is getting concerning.

A lot of concern trolling here about a poster calling out a politician (violently?) who has violently threatened constituents on their own private property in the past.

Both sides, many sides.