Solar power systems for the home

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

How is that sustainable? Where does the money come from to pay out the $0.28? I'm concerned I'll spend 25k on an array and then they'll go out of business/stop offering that deal 6 months later.

Yeah, there's probably modest demand from companies wanting to boost their ESG score by buying these solar power credits but I don't see it sustainable long-term either. As it is, we're seeing battles over net-metering in parts of the US where high penetration of solar has made mid-day electricity increasingly less valuable.

[edslunch]

My wife’s startup is working on a DIY modular home renewable energy system. While it can expand up to whole home the initial target is energy backup as an alternative to generators. Energy security isn’t generally top of mind in Canada but is a much bigger concern in parts of the US.

She is doing market research and would like to interview people who have interest in this subject, ideally south of the border. Let me know if you’re interested in a twenty minute call.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

My biggest concern with getting solar is how the solar club people are staying in business. Because sell at $0.28 in the summer and buy at $0.08 in the winter changes the economics fairly dramatically from sell/buy at $0.065 (or whatever).

How is that sustainable? Where does the money come from to pay out the $0.28? I'm concerned I'll spend 25k on an array and then they'll go out of business/stop offering that deal 6 months later.

So I am just starting to look into this so don’t know the details of the solar clubs but the link below is to the AESO pricing for electricity in Alberta.

https://www.aeso.ca/market/market-and-system-reporting/

If you go to reports you can look at the hourly pricing of electricity in Alberta and how in general it rises in summer during the day. Any days with averages over 280 would be able to sell your power for above the market price. But even when the day isn’t over 280 average depending on peak power Gen vs the rate at that time you could end up with higher than the daily average (in general you do because evening power is cheaper than daytime power)

However if you look at the -40 weeks you can see massive price spikes that you want to insulate yourself from. This is what happened in Texas where the grid price spiked and anyone not on a fixed rate contract got screwed.

There certainly is risk that over supply or changes to net metering could change these dynamics over the next 10 years but if you look at Alberta demand forecasts I wouldn’t say that power or transmission is getting cheaper anytime soon.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GGG

So I am just starting to look into this so don’t know the details of the solar clubs but the link below is to the AESO pricing for electricity in Alberta.

https://www.aeso.ca/market/market-and-system-reporting/

If you go to reports you can look at the hourly pricing of electricity in Alberta and how in general it rises in summer during the day. Any days with averages over 280 would be able to sell your power for above the market price. But even when the day isn’t over 280 average depending on peak power Gen vs the rate at that time you could end up with higher than the daily average (in general you do because evening power is cheaper than daytime power)

However if you look at the -40 weeks you can see massive price spikes that you want to insulate yourself from. This is what happened in Texas where the grid price spiked and anyone not on a fixed rate contract got screwed.

There certainly is risk that over supply or changes to net metering could change these dynamics over the next 10 years but if you look at Alberta demand forecasts I wouldn’t say that power or transmission is getting cheaper anytime soon.

The bidirectional meters they install don't keep track on an hourly basis though, just 1 number for power in and 1 number for power out per month. So the pricing both in and out is based on a monthly weighted average. Unless somehow solar customers are getting credit for the power being produced during the day in a way based on assumptions on when the power is produced.

Really my concern isn't with the $280 specifically, its with the spread between the buy and sell price. The summer and winter prices aren't as different as 28/8, so there is a spread there that they have to make up from somewhere.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I finally got off my lazy butt and signed up for one of the solar clubs effective last Friday. I really should have done that last year too, paying/paid $0.2585kWh and will switch back to a fixed rate when peak production season is over.

Got my first bill:

Billing period April 22 - May 31
Exported 482.29kWh
Imported 208.57kWh

Bill was a credit of $26.09

[Bigtime]

June 1 - July 3:

Exported 354kWh
Imported 146kWh

Credit of $17.08 plus the $50 from the Provincial government for a total credit of $67.08.

[gasman]

Updated my spreadsheet with June Actuals and July Estimate.

Google Sheet

June (May 12 - June 13):
Produced: 1686 kWh
Exported: 1256 kWh
Imported: 378 kWh
Self Consumed: 430kWh
Bill Total (including all fees and energy charges): $-182.42 (credit)


July (June 14- July 12):
Produced: 1472 kWh
Exported: 1073 kWh
Imported: 384 kWh
Self Consumed: 399kWh
Estimated Bill Total (including all fees and energy charges): $-133.21 (credit)

[calgarygeologist]

I've finally decided to get into the solar game. It will be a while before I'm set up as I'm just starting with the Green Home Grant process and have to jump through all the hoops but hopefully I can get set up for next summer. I'm going to have to remove a tree from my back yard to optimize sun hitting our roof depending on whether we go with an installation on our home or on the garage.

[Fuzz]

Nothing against you at all, I'm just amused that to save the earth you have to cut down a tree.

[photon]

Yeah I started the process as well.

For those who have it how may kW are your systems? They quoted me 13.43 kW for $40,000 before the grant. They say that will offset 100% of electricity costs that can be offset, but it's suspiciously the same as the maximum loan amount . They say it'll pay for itself by about 11 years.

I mean 10 year interest free loan is nice, but that's still almost $300 a month.

Almost all my roof slopes either east or west so not much of it is really ideal, I wonder how much that impacts the cost vs. return.

EDIT: And I'm a bit concerned about the longevity of the solar clubs too, that has a huge impact on the value proposition.

[calgarygeologist]

Your quote seems reasonable. I've been told $16k for 6.3kw.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Nothing against you at all, I'm just amused that to save the earth you have to cut down a tree.

I've got him covered, according to my app I've planted the equivalent of 89.84 trees since my system went operational.

[photon]

Do I need that much of a system though I guess is the question.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I've got him covered, according to my app I've planted the equivalent of 89.84 trees since my system went operational.

Theoretical trees! I guess those ones don't block sunlight.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by photon

Do I need that much of a system though I guess is the question.

Your system size would be based on your average yearly electricity consumption, so don't go lower than what they are calculating.

Enmax won't let you go bigger than that calculated number, unless you go and add something like an EV or plug-in hybrid (with proof of sale apparently) so they know you will be consuming more power than before.

[photon]

It'd be using up all the available roof anyway lol.

Ok I'll have to think about it, in general I like the idea but might be too much $ at this point.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by photon

Do I need that much of a system though I guess is the question.

Without knowing your particulars --- Probably -

based soley off my own experience. My array is 10.1KW, but 75% of it is south facing, adding an additional 30% to an E/W arrangement seems reasonable, I expect you likely won't make as much power, so you need to look at the total KWh expected for the year.

My system is 10.1 kW (that means 27 - 375w Panels)
My estimated production was 11,741kWh/year, my actual in year 1 was 11,503kWh (so pretty close to estimated).

My summary is updated on my google sheet here:

Solar Summary - Bill Analysis

[gasman]

Originally Posted by photon

Yeah I started the process as well.

For those who have it how may kW are your systems? They quoted me 13.43 kW for $40,000 before the grant. They say that will offset 100% of electricity costs that can be offset, but it's suspiciously the same as the maximum loan amount . They say it'll pay for itself by about 11 years.

I mean 10 year interest free loan is nice, but that's still almost $300 a month.

Almost all my roof slopes either east or west so not much of it is really ideal, I wonder how much that impacts the cost vs. return.

EDIT: And I'm a bit concerned about the longevity of the solar clubs too, that has a huge impact on the value proposition.

Prices have definitely gone up, $2/W was the going rate a year ago. That was still pretty early in the greener homes grant process, and it makes me think the growth of the program along with the new $40k loan has balloned the cost. You are getting quoted $3/W now which is a 50% increase in a little over a year.

Who was the quote with?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Nothing against you at all, I'm just amused that to save the earth you have to cut down a tree.

He's a geologist! When I was in geology we had T Shirts that said 'strip mining prevents forest fires', we're all about doing what we can to help mother earth.

[photon]

Originally Posted by gasman

Without knowing your particulars --- Probably -

based soley off my own experience. My array is 10.1KW, but 75% of it is south facing, adding an additional 30% to an E/W arrangement seems reasonable, I expect you likely won't make as much power, so you need to look at the total KWh expected for the year.

Yeah here's the panel arrangement they're proposing:



Feels like I have to have 2 different systems one for each half of the day

Originally Posted by gasman

Who was the quote with?

Zeno, my coworker used them so I got a referral.

I'll probably get one other quote at least.