Russia invades Ukraine

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by blankall

I feel like if the Russians did what the Iranians are doing right now, there'd be hundreds and thousands of Russian deaths.

There's something like 30 deaths in Iran right now. IMO if the people were pulling the same act in Russia, we'd see 3,000+ deaths there.

What are you basing this on? I don't know whether I agree or not, it's an interesting thought to consider.

But man, imagine living in a country where your supposed democratic president is considered worse than a theocrat like the Ayatollah.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

What are you basing this on? I don't know whether I agree or not, it's an interesting thought to consider.

But man, imagine living in a country where your supposed democratic president is considered worse than a theocrat like the Ayatollah.

We cant.

We cannot.

That is pretty much what people are saying in the last couple of pages.

We...Canadians, cannot imagine this. Its unfathomable. Impossible to wrap our heads around.

But while you're blaming the average Russian for not taking a grand stand against Tyranny for them its just Friday. Just like last Friday and just like next Friday.

Now they're being conscripted and while we cant even imagine what that must be like what is the average Russian supposed to do?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I have bought my tickets out of the country for the Friday -Saturnday night. Planes are all sold out, I will get out by train. Only three seats left when I bought it. I am monitoring channels dedicated to the status of the border control. As of right now, men CAN leave the country. Everyone says that this can change every hour. My wife and kids stay behind. The plan is to make it to Israel and try to prove my Jewish ancestry to get citizenship (I do in fact have Jewish ancestry). Wife and kids will join me lately. Despite all this, I am still somewhat nervous and not sure whether to carry out with this plan, nor whether I will be able to exit the country in Friday night.

Here is hoping Pointman manages to get out of the country tonight!

[Elkyiv]

Originally Posted by Locke

We cant.

We cannot.

That is pretty much what people are saying in the last couple of pages.

We...Canadians, cannot imagine this. Its unfathomable. Impossible to wrap our heads around.

But while you're blaming the average Russian for not taking a grand stand against Tyranny for them its just Friday. Just like last Friday and just like next Friday.

Now they're being conscripted and while we cant even imagine what that must be like what is the average Russian supposed to do?

There must be a reason why the Libyans were more brave to find out than the russians. I don't buy that that it's apathy. It's cowardice.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

There must be a reason why the Libyans were more brave to find out than the russians. I don't buy that that it's apathy. It's cowardice.

Because the Libyans live in relative anarchy compared to either Canadians or the Russians.

An unstable society....look....instability rocks both ways.

And it is apathy, nobody is arguing against that. If your day-to-day life remains largely unchanged are you going to grab a rifle and man a barricade to bring down the regime?

Probably not.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by opendoor

They're not siding with Russia; it's not like they're providing arms or any real support. They're just willing to exploit the situation to benefit their economies, which is pretty standard operating procedure for most large powers (NATO included).

And sure the war is a global concern, but primarily because it threatens US and NATO interests and involves a NATO-backed country. The attention it gets isn't because of the scale of the fighting or the causalities.

Continuing to buy Russian oil is siding with Russia.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by peter12

Continuing to buy Russian oil is siding with Russia.

Well then I guess most of Europe is siding with Russia too given all the gas they're still buying.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Elkyiv

There must be a reason why the Libyans were more brave to find out than the russians. I don't buy that that it's apathy. It's cowardice.

Gaddafi was in power for decades. He wasn't overthrown until he was almost 70 years old and his power was slipping. The revolutionist also had actual military support from outside forces, including Canada and the USA. By the time Gaddafi was actually overthrown, NATO had a full scall military operation going.

Gaddafi was only overthrow due to a series of events, which started with protests. Unless Putin's own generals start turning against him and you get NATO intervention, it's not really a comparable situation.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by peter12

Continuing to buy Russian oil is siding with Russia.

Remaining status quo is not picking a side. Europe continues to buy Russian gas and would buy more if Russians opens up the pipes. The Ukraine did not stop Russian gas flow through the Ukraine. Does the Ukraine support Russia too?

The world does not have the oil capacity to forgo Russian oil right now so someone had to buy it.

[Hack&Lube]

Graphic but honest description of the torture and human rights violations committed by Russian troops. How do they have so much depravity?

https://kyivindependent.com/national...e-was-in-agony

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by peter12

Continuing to buy Russian oil is siding with Russia.

This is a really dumb take which quite frankly makes me recalibrate your intelligence level which I thought was decent…

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

Remaining status quo is not picking a side. Europe continues to buy Russian gas and would buy more if Russians opens up the pipes. The Ukraine did not stop Russian gas flow through the Ukraine. Does the Ukraine support Russia too?

The world does not have the oil capacity to forgo Russian oil right now so someone had to buy it.

There were reports that India is buying Russian oil at a discount and then rebranding it as Indian oil, then selling it abroad. That kind of seems like they are helping Russia and profiting at the same time.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There were reports that India is buying Russian oil at a discount and then rebranding it as Indian oil, then selling it abroad. That kind of seems like they are helping Russia and profiting at the same time.

Thats actually brilliant. I mean, ethics aside.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats actually brilliant. I mean, ethics aside.

France did the same thing with Canadian Canola Oil when China banned it

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There were reports that India is buying Russian oil at a discount and then rebranding it as Indian oil, then selling it abroad. That kind of seems like they are helping Russia and profiting at the same time.

To me that is helping the world more than helping Russia.

Russia produces about 10 million barrels of oil a day.

The US can withdraw about 4 million barrels per day from their storage which has about 700 million barrels or about 175 days of max output. The EU has roughly 800 million barrels and likely a similar withdrawal capacity. We are more or less at max output right now.

So if no one bought Russian oil we would likely run out of oil by the end of the year as we would be short about 3.5 billion barrels compared with 1.5 billion in reserves plus whatever the rest of the world has.

We have no mechanism to not use Russian oil without placing the energy security of the world in peril.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by GGG

To me that is helping the world more than helping Russia.

Russia produces about 10 million barrels of oil a day.

The US can withdraw about 4 million barrels per day from their storage which has about 700 million barrels or about 175 days of max output. The EU has roughly 800 million barrels and likely a similar withdrawal capacity. We are more or less at max output right now.

So if no one bought Russian oil we would likely run out of oil by the end of the year as we would be short about 3.5 billion barrels compared with 1.5 billion in reserves plus whatever the rest of the world has.

We have no mechanism to not use Russian oil without placing the energy security of the world in peril.

And Putin knows it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

To me that is helping the world more than helping Russia.

Russia produces about 10 million barrels of oil a day.

The US can withdraw about 4 million barrels per day from their storage which has about 700 million barrels or about 175 days of max output. The EU has roughly 800 million barrels and likely a similar withdrawal capacity. We are more or less at max output right now.

So if no one bought Russian oil we would likely run out of oil by the end of the year as we would be short about 3.5 billion barrels compared with 1.5 billion in reserves plus whatever the rest of the world has.

We have no mechanism to not use Russian oil without placing the energy security of the world in peril.

India announced this month that they are cutting their Russian oil imports almost in half and opting for even cheaper African oil. So I guess by that logic, India is hurting the world?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

India announced this month that they are cutting their Russian oil imports almost in half and opting for even cheaper African oil. So I guess by that logic, India is hurting the world?

Not really,

Some other nation will buy the Russian oil as required to meet demand. Global potential production over demand is only a few million barrels at best.

It remains absurd to suggest that India purchasing Russian oil is supporting them or India cutting Russian purchase is cutting their support. It also means that Russia is going to have to further cut its prices reducing the money it brings in because it’s oil is conflict oil.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

India announced this month that they are cutting their Russian oil imports almost in half and opting for even cheaper African oil. So I guess by that logic, India is hurting the world?

It's no longer cheaper because China is buying more.

No one (even the US) has any illusions that Russia won't be able to export its oil. The goal is to lower the price they get for it by making it harder to sell.

No one outside of Europe seems to be willing to compromise their own position to punish Russia, so I'm not sure why anyone would expect India or China to. Even with all the sanctions, the US (and Canada to some degree as well) is loving this; Russia gets weakened while cheaper North American energy prices are encouraging manufacturing and economic activity here:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1572910130970394624

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Itse

This is nonsense.

There are currently large protests going on in Iran, 50 confirmed dead and uncountable number of injuries. Not over.

Syrians started a civil war after the government replied to protests woth violence, and would have probably succeeded if Russia hadn't intervened.

There have been protests today in occupied Ukraine. In fact Ukrainian civilians have been standing up to Russian military unarmed multiple times over this occupation.

China is no less draconian than Russia, there have been very large protests just this year, enough to call the military in.

In frickin Afghanistan this year, under Taleban, there have been plenty of open protests.

It took months to shut down Belarussian protests last year, despite outright torture used towards captured protestors. They didn't topple Lukashenko, but caused a significant weakening to his position, possibly enough to be a decisive factor in keeping Belarus out of the war in Ukraine.

Venezuelans arranged tens of thousands of protests in the 2010's despite thousands arrested and hundreds dead.

Russians are just chickensh*t, collectively speaking. This would be a perfect time to rise up. Huge numbers of the security force are tied up in Ukraine, and the military is extremely dissatisfied with the war.

It’s not nonsense at all it’s logic. Your examples are different contexts different countries different leadership different histories different peoples and cultures different rationales different on and on and on.

Okay so you’re in Russia today. You’re going to go start the protest then are you? And you’re going to hope everyone follows and wager your life on it? Really? I mean I’m not saying you wouldn’t do it but hey- you got more guts than me that’s for sure.