Sonny Milano on PTO in Calgary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

It’s below market for Kane. The speculation out of his camp was they were looking in the 7-8 AAV range. I couldn’t possibly name the teams.

They may have been looking for that, but it was never on the table, or he would have taken it.

His value includes his disruptive nature, just as it should. He is not worth $7M, no matter how much he wishes he was.

You are making a statement that you think he took a discount with literally nothing to support your speculation.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They may have been looking for that, but it was never on the table, or he would have taken it.

His value includes his disruptive nature, just as it should. He is not worth $7M, no matter how much he wishes he was.

You are making a statement that you think he took a discount with literally nothing to support your speculation.

Nothing was on the table as he didn’t even get to market.

His financial situation and the SJ legal implications made his going to market a risky proposition.

My ‘statement’ is an opinion.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Nothing was on the table as he didn’t even get to market.

His financial situation and the SJ legal implications made his going to market a risky proposition.

My ‘statement’ is an opinion.

Why would going to market be more risky than signing with the Oilers. And as been said, he was able to send out feelers prior to signing.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why would going to market be more risky than signing with the Oilers. And as been said, he was able to send out feelers prior to signing.

His circumstances were murkier than the typical free agent, to say the least. And even for free agents with seemingly the ideal situation headed into free agency, like Johnny - coming off a career year, still in his 20s, scored a game 7 GWG - the ‘feeler’ market and how it all unfolded turned out to be very different.

[browna]

He penned his "Thank you" to Oiler fans, next day went out to market, realized the interest was tepid at best, and came running back to a desperate Oilers team, both for talent wise, and a team with a perpetually dysfunction dressing room...a room devoid of leaders, that wont push back very much when Kane gets himself into the next spot of trouble or drama in the next 4-12 calender months.

[dino7c]

Imagine working this hard to defend Evander ####ing Kane


He didn't take a discount to return to Edmonton...full stop. Nothing even close was available elsewhere. It's laughable to suggest he could have got 7 or 8. If anything the Oilers overpaid based on term.

Take the L and move on

This also also a terrible thread to talk about the Oilers advantage in attracting players since this PTO blows theirs out of the ####ing water

[getbak]

The Oilers gave Kane full permission to negotiate contract terms with other teams prior to the opening of free agency. He might have signed before technically becoming a free agent, but he certainly knew what the market was going to be. The Flames did not give Gaudreau permission to talk to any other teams.

The situation with the Sharks wouldn't have had any impact on another team signing him. There's no chance the league would have restored his contract with San Jose -- neither side would have wanted that. That was only ever about determining what monetary and cap penalties the Sharks would face for terminating his contract. In fact, the Oilers probably saved San Jose a bunch of money by giving him so much.


He wrote a thank you letter to Oiler fans. I've never seen that from a player who later re-signed with that same team. I can't imagine him writing that if his heart was set on re-signing with the Oilers.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Defensive much? Where did I say that? I commented on Calgary being a nicer city as the tie breaker. I suggested that was nullified by the dynamic duo in Edmonton.

No. What you said was:

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

there’s no denying on the hockey side, they’re more appealing because of the two forwards on that team.

You flat out called the Oilers a more appealing team to play for than the Flames.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Kane just signed a really nice discount to stay in Edmonton as a recent example.

Hyman is another name that comes to mind in recent memory. Looch signed his contract there for a chance to flank McDavid. I’m not going to dig for more but can we really dispute this ‘BS’ tendency in sports?

I think the magnitude of Kane's options and the level of any discount he extended to the Oilers is questionable at best. But, more to the point, you have pointed to Zack Hyman and Milan Lucic as players who opted for the chance to play in Edmonton as a more attractive proposition than in Calgary. That's two high-profile UFAs since 2016. In only the past three years, the Flames have signed the top UFA goalie—beating out an offer from Edmonton in the process, a top-three UFA winger, and the top UFA centre. If your premise about Edmonton being "undeniably more appealing" is to hold any water at all, then this rather glaring disparity requires some explanation.

God forbid a bit of objectivity.

You call it that. But in my long experience on this site I have come to see that the claim of "objectivity" is nothing more than a deflection away from the fact that you are doubling down on an assertion that you simply cannot support with evidence.

[1qqaaz]

Do the Flames only have enough cap space to sign one of Milano or Ritchie?

[Toonage]

They can sign them both (just not to outrageous amounts)

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Toonage

They can sign them both (just not to outrageous amounts)

But Milano would make it 14 forwards. Someone would have to go.

[Toonage]

Who are the 14?

If Milano stands out and earns a contract they'll waive who they need to and risk it. Given there will be 31 other teams moving players down and trying to get cap compliant I doubt the Flames lose anyone like Ruzicka (as an example)

[camm13]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Do the Flames only have enough cap space to sign one of Milano or Ritchie?

Flames show $1.34M in cap now with Ruzica signed, and that includes Peltier being accounted for. If he's sent down to the AHL, they can sign both Ritchie and Milano to around league min. Maybe slightly more for Milano

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Who are the 14?

If Milano stands out and earns a contract they'll waive who they need to and risk it. Given there will be 31 other teams moving players down and trying to get cap compliant I doubt the Flames lose anyone like Ruzicka (as an example)

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Toffoli - Kadri - Dube
Coleman - Backlund - Milano? (PTO)
Lucic - Rooney - Lewis
X - Ruzicka, Ritchie

Ruzicka might be the odd one out, though can see Ritchie hit the waivers too.

[Toonage]

^ So in that scenario if they want to keep Milano (and not have 14 forwards) they would waive Ruzicka

So in theory you could run with

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Kadri-Milano
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Rooney-Ritchie
- Lewis

or whatever combo

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Imagine working this hard to defend Evander ####ing Kane


He didn't take a discount to return to Edmonton...full stop. Nothing even close was available elsewhere. It's laughable to suggest he could have got 7 or 8. If anything the Oilers overpaid based on term.

Take the L and move on

This also also a terrible thread to talk about the Oilers advantage in attracting players since this PTO blows theirs out of the ####ing water

I agree. You are forgetting that every team in the league could have had him last year at 7 million for free - he was on waivers, multiple times. All evidence points to no team valuing his contribution at 7 million per year. Otherwise, they would have just taken him off waivers. I would wager the Sharks offered to eat half the contract multiple times as well. It is remarkable that he got the contract he did.

[Bingo]

The Flames have 16 players that have salaries that you couldn't bury in the minors (not that you would, but it would cost you to send them down).

Beyond that they have an obvious back up goaltender.

Take those 16 players and add Vladar and it's 17 players at $75.9M in cap space.

They'd lose some options on waivers potentially (Valimaki, Rooney, Ruzicka) but they have a lot of flexibility in how they fill out those final 4-5 spots with over $5M.

[howard_the_duck]

There's no responding to the multiple quotes without derailing this thread even further, so I'll abstain.

My opinion was boldly, perhaps too boldly, stated and invited some scrutiny. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to not siding with the Flames can do no wrong mob, and yes, I'm an avid Flames fan.

I think this board has seen better times though when it comes to contrarian opinions, having reasonable discourse around that, and not being outright abrasive towards them. Anything not derogatory towards the Oilers is a no-fly zone.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

There's no responding to the multiple quotes without derailing this thread even further, so I'll abstain.

My opinion was boldly, perhaps too boldly, stated and invited some scrutiny. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to not siding with the Flames can do no wrong mob, and yes, I'm an avid Flames fan.

I think this board has seen better times though when it comes to contrarian opinions, having reasonable discourse around that, and not being outright abrasive towards them. Anything not derogatory towards the Oilers is a no-fly zone.

I didn't see anything wrong with you putting out your view. I disagreed with the view, but I see no issue with you putting it out there. Whatever the reason (goaltending, injured Tanev, not playing their identity, Flames' stars not being able to compete with Oilers'), I thought the Flames got ran over last spring by the Oilers and Kane was a big part of that. I can understand why the Oilers wanted Kane back, but I just don't think that there was a market for his services other than Edmonton.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

There's no responding to the multiple quotes without derailing this thread even further, so I'll abstain.

My opinion was boldly, perhaps too boldly, stated and invited some scrutiny. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to not siding with the Flames can do no wrong mob, and yes, I'm an avid Flames fan.

I think this board has seen better times though when it comes to contrarian opinions, having reasonable discourse around that, and not being outright abrasive towards them. Anything not derogatory towards the Oilers is a no-fly zone.

[Snarly Walter White voice] You're goddamn right.