[Rumour] Oilers, and only the Oilers, are the finalist for Virtanen

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

And in the court of CP the consensus is anyone accused is guilty.

Guilty until proven innocent. Then still guilty.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by greentree

Accused parties and alleged victims usually have different interpretations of the truth.
But I hear you. Talk is just talk. Opinions here are just opinions. Including mine.
I get jumpy when I see people stating that "not guilty" does "not mean innocent"...which you did not say; someone else did.
Saul Goodman!

I'll repeat it: not guilty does note mean innocent.

It doesn't really matter what a bunch of randos on the internet think. But, based on allegations credible enough for the crown to go to trial + dozens of rumours/personal anecdotes about his character that followed + the sad recent reminders of the prevalence of sexual assault among jr hockey players in this country, I feel pretty comfortable holding an opinion that Virtanen is likely a lamentable human being.

Which again, doesn't mean squat. But knock yourself out if you want to spend your time defending him/giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

People are sure judgemental on here without knowing the case inside and out or talking with Virtanen and seeing his character (I'm sure Brad will before he signs him to a contract other than a PTO - and I trust his judgement). I sure hope these judgemental people never get falsely accused or charged with anything because if you do - you'll be guilty on here no matter what happens or whatever the truth.

What about the Duke lacrosse case as just one example of athletes falsely accused of rape - and just a quick search of the internet shows that it happens all the time. I think I'll need to know more about the case before I judge Virtanen sight unseen.

We're all going to encounter a few injustices in our lives. For some it will be getting an 'unfair' speeding ticket for 4km over the limit or having your car broken into. Others may be falsely accused of something. Others may have their country invaded.

All of the above suck to varying degrees. How you respond to life's inevitable adversities is what defines your character. There's probably a few million other societal issues that warrant a little more attention than a theoretical false accusation problem, but we can each decide where to direct our concerns.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The state presumes him innocent. It doesn’t judge him to be innocent. He can’t say “the judge decided I didn’t do it”.

Fair. An acquitted can correctly say "I was found not guilty" and "the judge/jury did not find that I did it."
From there, it's not unreasonable for society to understand the acquitted "didn't do it." But point taken.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

And in the court of CP the consensus is anyone accused is guilty.

Originally Posted by Goriders

Guilty until proven innocent. Then still guilty.

And with that, the amount of posts complaining about how the CP consensus is that he’s guilty actually outnumbers the amount of posts saying he’s guilty.

Bravo gentlemen, you cracked the case.

[greentree]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'll repeat it: not guilty does note mean innocent.

It doesn't really matter what a bunch of randos on the internet think. But, based on allegations credible enough for the crown to go to trial + dozens of rumours/personal anecdotes about his character that followed + the sad recent reminders of the prevalence of sexual assault among jr hockey players in this country, I feel pretty comfortable holding an opinion that Virtanen is likely a lamentable human being.

Which again, doesn't mean squat. But knock yourself out if you want to spend your time defending him/giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I've neither defended him nor given him the benefit of doubt. He was found not guilty, he is *presumed* innocent, thanks to others for clarifying the point of law I tried to make, clumsily and not to the letter.
He may very well be a lamentable human being, as you say, and any potential employer should really consider that.
Again, I think Flames should pass.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

People are sure judgemental on here without knowing the case inside and out or talking with Virtanen and seeing his character (I'm sure Brad will before he signs him to a contract other than a PTO - and I trust his judgement). I sure hope these judgemental people never get falsely accused or charged with anything because if you do - you'll be guilty on here no matter what happens or whatever the truth.

Yeah, this happens, but I have also seen several posters talking in this thread more specifically of Virtanen's reputation that has developed specifically from personal interactions with him.

What about the Duke lacrosse case as just one example of athletes falsely accused of rape - and just a quick search of the internet shows that it happens all the time. I think I'll need to know more about the case before I judge Virtanen sight unseen.

I think that's fine, but I also don't know if this particular fairly complex case featuring social and cultural dynamics in the city of Durham, a rogue prosecutor seeking re-election and an accuser who suffered from severe mental health issues serves as a great example of Virtanen's victimization by false allegations. The two situations really don't have much at all to do with one another.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

How about regardless of what he's like off the ice or what he's done, he's not a particularly good hockey player and doesn't warrant wasting a contract / roster spot on?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

How about regardless of what he's like off the ice or what he's done, he's not a particularly good hockey player and doesn't warrant wasting a contract / roster spot on?

This is the issue (after vetting the personality)

But again, a PTO is neither wasting a contract, nor a roster spot. It is simply a free option to see if the player is worth giving those things to.

[Robbob]

Generally PTOs are a bit of a favour to the player so that they can get some exposure in preseason. If you are a team that is targeting players on PTOs to make a difference then chances are your team has issues. I would assume that the only reason Virtanen is linked to Calgary is from his Hitmen days.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

What about the Duke lacrosse case as just one example of athletes falsely accused of rape - and just a quick search of the internet shows that it happens all the time. I think I'll need to know more about the case before I judge Virtanen sight unseen.

Now do a quick search on studies showing how under-reported sexual assault is.

[Mr_Pilot]

Recent rumblings that Virtanen will indeed be going to Edmonton on a PTO. Very on-brand for that market as of late.

[CaptainCrunch]

I get it, you bring in players on PTO's to try them out and hope you stumble onto something.

Virtanen is fast, and has a shot. But he's has the hockey IQ of a coffee mug, and the defensive awareness of a blind person at a land mine convention.

He'd be a waste of a training camp space, plus the Flames would have to feed him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I get it, you bring in players on PTO's to try them out and hope you stumble onto something.

Virtanen is fast, and has a shot. But he's has the hockey IQ of a coffee mug, and the defensive awareness of a blind person at a land mine convention.

He'd be a waste of a training camp space, plus the Flames would have to feed him.

Yeah, for quite a while I thought "big, fast, RHS, local kid" was a no brainer here. But he just hasn't panned out and that was in a place which hypes mediocre talents a fair bit. Plus character trumps skill for me anyway.

[Enoch Root]

Mangiapane - Kadri - Virtanen

LOL. There's a #### disturber line

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And with that, the amount of posts complaining about how the CP consensus is that he’s guilty actually outnumbers the amount of posts saying he’s guilty.

Bravo gentlemen, you cracked the case.

I take offence to being called a gentleman dammit!

[Blaster86]

*happy schadenfreude noises*

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Mangiapane - Kadri - Virtanen

LOL. There's a #### disturber line

Is Virtanen actually gritty or just a d-bag off ice? Isn't he too lazy to be a disturber on ice?

[Oil Stain]

This would be a good use of a PTO.

Virtanen is a guy that has a chance of outperforming a ~$750k contract unlike Devin Shore and Greg McKegg.

[Steve Macfarlane]

Just say no.

https://calgaryhockeynow.com/calgary...monton-oilers/

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Is Virtanen actually gritty or just a d-bag off ice? Isn't he too lazy to be a disturber on ice?

He's kind of like a Burrows (or wishes he was), sneaking the dirty crap in when no one is looking.

Again, as for lazy, while he has been in the past, he has to be aware that this is his last chance. And he is 26 now, surely there has been some emotional maturity along the way.