Saddledome literally falling apart

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not sure that this is about lessons, it is simply the current state of the situation. And there is nothing we can do about the design of the building now, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make, other than throwing shade on the need for a new building.

Structurally, some things can be repaired, some things can't. The building has already undergone a fair bit of repairs over the years, and maintenance is what it is. It is now approaching the point where safety becomes a serious issue.

In other words, a new building is needed. This isn't a lesson to be drawn, it is simply a fact.

Are you attempting to argue that things are being presented nefariously, in order to influence the debate?

I'm not sure "a new building is needed" is a fact. It's just an opinion.

If I'm arguing anything, I guess the closest thing would be questioning how much we trust this group to not only provide a top quality building, but properly maintain it so that it isn't a public safety issue in a couple decades. Buildings should be able to last more than 20-30 years, no? You disagree?

If we're trusting them with hundreds of millions of dollars, I would have higher expectations.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And of course, that's just common sense.

Now now, go back to your alien thread professor.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Honestly given the prosperity in this province over the decades relative to the rest of Canada it's inexplicable that Calgary has by far the worst sports facilities of all major Canadian cities. We should have amongst the best end of story. Winnipeg with just over half the population of Calgary can somehow build a new arena and football stadium and we can't get either done? Both CSEC and city hall should be ashamed that things have come to this.

Totally agree .... and the Alberta Government needs some blame too.

Also concerts and other events aren't coming to the city because of the lack of venues.

[powderjunkie]

Just remember how CSEC's actions undermine the notion that this is an existential threat.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

To be fair, all of Murray Edward's buildings are old as hell and not well taken care of.

It's not his building. The city owns it.

[DylanScores]

New Calgary Arena is the New Ring Road !

[PuckSlap]

Loud noises!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

It's not his building. The city owns it.

CSEC are responsible for operation, maintenance, and repairs.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Are these types of engineering reports usually released to the public?

They would, and should be considering tax payers dollars went into it. Information had to be secured by a FOIP request which would suggest they have been sitting on information since 2018 and have been procrastinating on remedial options and not making it available for public opinion reasons. Four years after the report was complete and the city is only now indicating a "full remediation plan to stabilize the concrete is expected in coming months and a plan to fix the problem will be implemented" would appear that they knew the information was going to be public (they did know) and decided they had better do something about it.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

CSEC are responsible for operation, maintenance, and repairs.

"CSEC, is responsible for paying for the building's upkeep although responsibility for any major repairs to the Saddledome rests with the City of Calgary." as per the article.

I would say this would constitute a major repair and potential major liability.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well the other thing is because both sides bunged this up so badly, thus delaying any project, it has cost tens of millions of dollars as costs have risen. Probably hundreds.

That's the aggravating thing. everyone would be in a better state if it had been settled years ago, as it should have been.

Ego and incompetence got in the way. On both sides.

Flames ownership has been trying to squeeze out the absolute best deal they can for like 15 years. I get that it's in their best interest to pay as little as they can towards the arenas they play in. But with the cost going up just due to every year passing over a decade or more, let alone other factors, at a certain point it goes from business savvy to bad business.

I mean the Flames were right to find a reason to back out of the last deal as costs were atromioncal due to Covid, but that's the culmination of years of Flames blunders and miscalculations on what they could reasonably get.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Redlan

"CSEC, is responsible for paying for the building's upkeep although responsibility for any major repairs to the Saddledome rests with the City of Calgary." as per the article.

I would say this would constitute a major repair and potential major liability.

I don't know how CSEC does it, but a lot of companies put a value on the liability and wait with the repairs until the point in which the liability exceeds the repair cost.

[FlamesAddiction]

The cost versus benefits of having to pay >$100 million dollars, and then likely the same or more every few years, compared to just building a new arena, probably are not favourable.

An arena needing to be replaced after 30-40 years is not unusual. Yes, some iconic buildings last long and are worth constant renos and upgrades. The Saddledome just isn't , not at this point.

I think there has to be fear at this point, that even if ground broke for a new facility tomorrow, the current building may have to be closed before the new arena is even ready.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Also concerts and other events aren't coming to the city because of the lack of venues.

Considering I will have to travel to Vancouver to go to a concert next May and spent the weekend in Edmonton in June for concerts that have not come to Calgary this more than a CSEC issue, it is a city issue.

[Manhattanboy]

The ring road analogy is interesting.

With these things you typically have a reasonable idea as to the outcome.

I like to think an arena deal is in the works.

But you never know. Teams move. Look at the NFL.

I really like the Saddledome once I’m settled in my seats. The sight lines are really good from almost every area of the Dome and I have concerns about the design of the new building. But there can be no argument that our facilities are outdated and in terrible condition.

[getbak]

The Event Centre Committee is meeting this morning. They gave a brief public update then moved into a private session, which is customary for these sorts of negotiations.

The only real news is that the third party group has engaged in discussion with CSEC over the summer.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570076368590999556

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570076554373529600

https://twitter.com/user/status/1570082198098964480

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Interesting that the lesson some are taking from this is that we need a new arena and not that the Saddledome should have been designed or maintained better.

There are older buildings than the Saddledome that are not falling apart.

This is 100% on the mark. Are we all to believe that the lifespan of modern building made of steel and concrete is no more than 40 years now? The Calgary tower is 15 years older than the dome, so we better be knocking that thing down for safety as well!

Shame on the city and flames for allowing the building to get to this point as routine maintenance would certainly allow this structure to function for many more years without crumbling.

[powderjunkie]

Opened in 1965, still going strong




Opened in 1973, demolished in 2002

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Honestly given the prosperity in this province over the decades relative to the rest of Canada it's inexplicable that Calgary has by far the worst sports facilities of all major Canadian cities. We should have amongst the best end of story. Winnipeg with just over half the population of Calgary can somehow build a new arena and football stadium and we can't get either done? Both CSEC and city hall should be ashamed that things have come to this.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with taxpayers. Murray Edwards and his owners has made millions, if not billions off of this province, and the last 8-12 months has been no different with the way oil has been booming again. For some reason this just doesn't add into the equation and only the costs should be shared but not the profit? I would love to have my life operate in that kind of fantasy land structure as well - wouldn't everyone?

The fact they still won't even agree to even a heavily weighted cost share is embarrassing, greedy, and really quite gross. These guys want to continue to profit heavily off of this province and team, but investing in the building at a full or even 75% cost share is unpalatable?

Bugger right off you greedy jerks.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup we have
- A rink that is no longer NHL quality and falling apart
- A football stadium that is past it's life as well
- No baseball stadium that can house any quality baseball

I struggle with this because I also don't know if its the best use of public funds. But if, as a city, we want pro sports, you need facilities.
i don't know what the right solution is. But the state of facilities in this city is very poor.

If only we had the opportunity to access billions of dollars in Federal Funding to reset the facilities within the City as part of hosting an international sporting event that would draw the attention of the entire world.

If that same money was ONLY spent on marketing the city & region in order JUST get the PLANET to pay attention, it would last a second and be unsuccessful.

Also… this article is just fear mongering theatre, as they buried the lead.

Not a structural concern

Pictures in a 2018 report show what happens when concrete breaks free and falls from the roof beam.

Chunks of concrete fell onto a roof structure below which is over the Saddledome's west steps. The heavy material punched a jagged hole in the structure.

The engineering reports note the problems with the concrete on the ring beam are of a superficial nature and do not present a structural concern for the roof itself.