[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It's still a bad deal for them...do you really think the Flames get a better offer than Huberdeau and a first? I don't

They could have moved Weegar in another deal if they wanted to move him so bad.

As for 1M per season cheaper I doubt that too...Florida could have had Huberdeau for less than Calgary paid.

Zito saw a player he wanted and got him and Treliving did a great job negotiating the return. Kyrou+Krug+1st was an alleged offer and maybe getting the younger forward, top 4 D and pick in 23 would be more valuable than 1 year of Huberdeau and a 1st in 3 years.

[Macman]

The only advantage and it’s a big one to consider is Tkachuk is younger. But at the same time that could take another three years for those benefits to show up as Huberdeau is still very much a good player in his prime and arguably currently better than Tkachuk. Plus Florida also gave up Weegar.

It’s a gamble for the Panthers really as I think they’re not quite as good as they were with those two players. There’s also coaching and will Maurice get from Tkachuk what Sutter did?

[Vinny01]

I can’t think of a comparable player but if the Flames go out have another great season and lose to the Oilers in round 2 again and have the chance next summer to trade Lindholm+Hanifin+Average prospect+conditional 1st for a 23/24 year old legit top line center who was going to sign here for 8 years it would be the equivalent of this deal.

Florida moved 2 players they would have needed to spend $17M of cap space on for their 29/30-36/38 year old seasons and replaced them with a 24 year old who is signed until he is 32. Deal makes sense to me from a Florida standpoint for sure.

Flames want to win and lost 2 of their best players from last year and got the best win now package that was available to them. Makes a ton of sense to me from a Flames standpoint as well. Calgary is prepared to pay those players into their 30’s as they clearly want to win in the next couple of years. Florida is taking a slight step back but feels this move keeps their window open longer and pairs their number 1 C with an elite winger who is younger and brings a unique style of play to their team, a style that their GM thought they were lacking in their recent second round sweep

[Vinny01]

Tkachuk was 8th in league scoring last year and was the youngest player of all the top 20 point getters last year.

[Macman]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk was 8th in league scoring last year and was the youngest player of all the top 20 point getters last year.

But that’s the question and what everyone will be watching, will he be able to do it again or even get close. He’s still a good player but he was playing with Lindholm and Gaudreau.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's only a bad deal if the player doesn't work out or the team doesn't accomplish anything in future playoffs which is yet to be determined. It's a great deal for the Flames but clearly the Panthers are more than happy with it or they wouldn't have made the trade. I'm more curious about Paul Maurice as the head coach than the trade to be honest. He's not exactly the head coach I would bring in when trying to get over the hump to win a Stanley Cup.

With that line you basically created a disclaimer that can never call any trade poor going forward.

Nobody is calling Tkachuk a poor hockey player, but a team that has moved four straight 1st round picks for rentals to win now should never have massively weakened their blueline in a window year.

Really they should have found futures to get Tkachuk in to play with Barkov and leave Huberdeau on the second line to drive the rest of the top six and then let him walk.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Macman

But that’s the question and what everyone will be watching, will he be able to do it again or even get close. He’s still a good player but he was playing with Lindholm and Gaudreau.

Tkachuk at 21 scored 34 goals and 77pts playing even strength with Backlund and Frolik. He is now playing with Barkov who is held in higher regard than Lindholm and while there isn’t a Gaudreau on the line he has proven to put up high end numbers with lesser linemates in the past.

I don’t subscribe to the notion Florida lost this trade in any way. I truly have felt this is a win-win trade from day 1. Feels like a bigger win for Calgary because of the situation they were in and getting Huberdeau locked up was a huge help. They can also afford to pay Weegar with their cap situation on the back end having no Dman making north of $5M currently.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With that line you basically created a disclaimer that can never call any trade poor going forward.

Nobody is calling Tkachuk a poor hockey player, but a team that has moved four straight 1st round picks for rentals to win now should never have massively weakened their blueline in a window year.

Really they should have found futures to get Tkachuk in to play with Barkov and leave Huberdeau on the second line to drive the rest of the top six and then let him walk.

What futures? As you said they moved four 1st round picks. Tkachuk is 24 years old. He keeps the window open longer than Huberdeau.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What futures? As you said they moved four 1st round picks. Tkachuk is 24 years old. He keeps the window open longer than Huberdeau.

They have prospects.

Just don't think moving two upper roster players for one, especially when the one is a pretty level replacement for the forward leaving is the best way to manage a window that has already seen you spend deeply into creating it.

And does he?

Tkachuk will have a better expiry date than Huberdeau but does that difference show up in this window? Or does the window shut and they have a younger player to rebuild around for window number two?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I can’t think of a comparable player but if the Flames go out have another great season and lose to the Oilers in round 2 again and have the chance next summer to trade Lindholm+Hanifin+Average prospect+conditional 1st for a 23/24 year old legit top line center who was going to sign here for 8 years it would be the equivalent of this deal.

Florida moved 2 players they would have needed to spend $17M of cap space on for their 29/30-36/38 year old seasons and replaced them with a 24 year old who is signed until he is 32. Deal makes sense to me from a Florida standpoint for sure.

Flames want to win and lost 2 of their best players from last year and got the best win now package that was available to them. Makes a ton of sense to me from a Flames standpoint as well. Calgary is prepared to pay those players into their 30’s as they clearly want to win in the next couple of years. Florida is taking a slight step back but feels this move keeps their window open longer and pairs their number 1 C with an elite winger who is younger and brings a unique style of play to their team, a style that their GM thought they were lacking in their recent second round sweep

Huberdeau is much better than Lindholm. Legit top forward in the NHL.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What futures? As you said they moved four 1st round picks. Tkachuk is 24 years old. He keeps the window open longer than Huberdeau.

But it's not open as wide IMO

They just had their best regular season in franchise history and their best playoffs in nearly 26 years.

So they lost in the second round...so did the Avs multiple times

Tkachuk has had 2 seasons over 61 points

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Zito saw a player he wanted and got him and Treliving did a great job negotiating the return. Kyrou+Krug+1st was an alleged offer and maybe getting the younger forward, top 4 D and pick in 23 would be more valuable than 1 year of Huberdeau and a 1st in 3 years.

That was a fan offer...the reported Blues offer from reliable sources was Teresenko and not Kyrou

We will likely never know but Brad said other offers "weren't even close" and considering how quickly they moved him I believe it. If there were comparable offers I think they would have kept the bidding war going.

End of the day I guess it depends how good people think Tkachuk is...I seem to remember a lot of posters on here scoffing at the idea of paying him even his qualifying offer.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Tkachuk at 21 scored 34 goals and 77pts playing even strength with Backlund and Frolik. He is now playing with Barkov who is held in higher regard than Lindholm and while there isn’t a Gaudreau on the line he has proven to put up high end numbers with lesser linemates in the past.

I don’t subscribe to the notion Florida lost this trade in any way. I truly have felt this is a win-win trade from day 1. Feels like a bigger win for Calgary because of the situation they were in and getting Huberdeau locked up was a huge help. They can also afford to pay Weegar with their cap situation on the back end having no Dman making north of $5M currently.

Yep, it's a good trade for both teams, but for different reasons. Florida was unlikely to be able to afford both Huberdeau and Weegar past this next season and used them to get young star player locked in for the next 8 seasons, all of them prime years. The Flames got assets to help now, but with fewer prime years left.

Obviously everything depends on what these players do next, but as it stands right now, I see it as a win-win for both teams.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

That was a fan offer...the reported Blues offer from reliable sources was Teresenko and not Kyrou

We will likely never know but Brad said other offers "weren't even close" and considering how quickly they moved him I believe it. If there were comparable offers I think they would have kept the bidding war going.

End of the day I guess it depends how good people think Tkachuk is...I seem to remember a lot of posters on here scoffing at the idea of paying him even his qualifying offer.

Agreed and I was someone who wanted to lock him up for 8 years and slap the C on him. Tkachuk was the first named jersey I bought after Iginla and was my favorite player on the team. This forum will be calling the Huberdeau extension a horrible move if he doesn’t get off to the best start next year

End of the day the deal makes sense to me for both sides. Zito saw a player he wanted who wouldn’t otherwise be available and traded 2 players he was unsure he wanted to commit the terms and dollars it would take to keep them and because they were both technically rentals he had to kick in some futures which he hasn’t been afraid to do so far so why stop now when he is getting a player 4-5 years younger than the ones he is sending out.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Macman

The only advantage and it’s a big one to consider is Tkachuk is younger.

It's not the only advantage. For example Tkachuk still has upside, you can just look at what Huberdeau had done at by the time he was 24, he wasn't even close to getting 100 points. Mathew is also the better goalscorer and goalscoring is always at premium plus he's a pest on top of it.

If you also consider how Tkachuk also fits their core's age group better than either Huberdeau or Weegar and Weegar's value was essentially going to be a rental for them this year, it makes a lot more sense for the Panthers. They'll be worse this upcoming year but after that they should be a better team, although I still don't understand the Paul Maurice signing at all.

[dino7c]

Well the Flames had no choice...for this to be a good deal for Florida they will need to have a run with Tkachuk being a major contributor in the next few years.

They gave up bringing the presidents cup Champs back for another go. Sure they lost in round two but so did the Avs 3 times to lesser opponents.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

It's not the only advantage. For example Tkachuk still has upside, you can just look at what Huberdeau had done at by the time he was 24, he wasn't even close to getting 100 points. Mathew is also the better goalscorer and goalscoring is always at premium plus he's a pest on top of it.

If you also consider how Tkachuk also fits their core's age group better than either Huberdeau or Weegar and Weegar's value was essentially going to be a rental for them this year, it makes a lot more sense for the Panthers. They'll be worse this upcoming year but after that they should be a better team, although I still don't understand the Paul Maurice signing at all.

Well that's not really a fair comparison either...when Huberdeau was 24 he wasn't playing with a Lindholm/Gaudreau in a season where scoring was off the charts.

Tkachuk has been over 61 points 2 times...I highly doubt he is going to have many more 100 point seasons let alone do better

You can says goals are more important but Huberdeau led the league in primary assists (more than McDavid) and had 85 assists which is 8 more than Tkachuk had points in his second best year.

Tkachuk is gonna have to have quite the career and the Panthers are going to need a run or two before this makes sense for them

IMO

We can go back and forth forever though, time will tell

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by dino7c

We can go back and forth forever though, time will tell

...so much this.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well the Flames had no choice...for this to be a good deal for Florida they will need to have a run with Tkachuk being a major contributor in the next few years.

They gave up bringing the presidents cup Champs back for another go. Sure they lost in round two but so did the Avs 3 times to lesser opponents.

They also do not need to extend a guy who will be 30 and another who will be 29 for $17-$18M per. They have a 24 year old who put up some huge numbers and plays a high end pest game.

If they don’t sign Huberdeau and Weegar they lose them for nothing. Cap management dictates you can only have so many players at big money and they have their 27 year old top center, 26 year old top D and 24 year old top winger. If they didn’t have Bob they would have more flexibility but also will be a desirable destination moving forward for free agents.

While I am extremely pleased with the Flames summer their window is likely shorter by replacing a 24 and 29 year old with a 29 and 32 year old pairing. The flames are looking to lock up Weegar for his 30’s as well. Not the best spot to be in but a spot that makes sense right now with the makeup of this team. Florida is full of players in their 20’s. From Lundell to Tkachuk to Bennett to Reinhart to Barkov to Ekblad to Knight.

In a year if the Flames could trade Lindholm and Hanifin, average prospect and conditional 1st for an elite 23/24 year old center who signs for 8 years that would be something to get excited about rather than paying Lindholm and Hanifin huge money for their age 29/27-37/35 aged seasons.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

See, I think this is a problem. By fixating on his rival Bill Zito has potentially, effectively made his team worse. This is the very definition of myopia.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

I agree. Which is why I hate some of the talk I hear about the Flames needing to build a team that can beat the Oilers. Don't buy that Treliving is making his moves with this in mind.