2022 PGA Tour Thread

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by jayswin

world No. 2 Cameron Smith and five other players have joined LIV Golf and will play this week’s event in Boston.

Joining Smith on the Saudi-backed circuit are Marc Leishman, Joaquin Niemann, Harold Varner III, Cameron Tringale and Anirban Lahiri.

I still find Smith a bit shocking. He's the first top young player in his prime to go. If he doesn't care about winning majors and getting to the #1 world ranking, then I guess there is no reason to really care about watching him golf. He made over 10 million this year and would have been in line for a lot more if he played all the playoff events and pip bonus and sponsorships. Going for a 100 million over 4? years if they stick around that long is obviously more money, but not necessarily way more money.

[DoubleK]

I'm not surprised at all. Cam gets to spend more time in Australia, gets to play in at least one LIV event at home, and is exempt into all majors for the next 5 years.

Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

[jayswin]

I'm actually more bummed about Varner, he's a such a nice person and great ambassador. I was always cheering for him.

I guess we're almost getting to the point where golf is kind of ruined for the time being. No longer best on best and you can start to feel it. This year's playoffs already felt pretty blah to watch, felt like you were missing some key players.

Kind of like if the NHL had a startup league that successfully stole not all but a decent chunk of top end players. It would be the fans who lose as they start to lose interest without the allure of one league where the best play the best.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Kind of like if the NHL had a startup league that successfully stole not all but a decent chunk of top end players. It would be the fans who lose as they start to lose interest without the allure of one league where the best play the best.

That was called the WHA. There was also the AFL in football just before the WHA too. Granted Lamar Hunt wasn't quite the Saudi's in terms of pocket depth, and WHA owners were a step below what were some shady NHL owners at the time. Those leagues did force salaries up, but were not viable on their own and merged with the more established rival.

Maybe that happens here. Perhaps some new global economic villain emerges to start a rival tennis circuit next.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I'm not surprised at all. Cam gets to spend more time in Australia, gets to play in at least one LIV event at home, and is exempt into all majors for the next 5 years.

Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

I would be pretty surprised if the Masters and PGA Championship still allowed liv players by next year. The PGA Championship has already basically said they don't qualify. I'd guess the Opens stay open, but who knows. That's what surprises me the most is that he would do this not really knowing if he'll be able to play majors going forward.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I would be pretty surprised if the Masters and PGA Championship still allowed liv players by next year. The PGA Championship has already basically said they don't qualify. I'd guess the Opens stay open, but who knows. That's what surprises me the most is that he would do this not really knowing if he'll be able to play majors going forward.

The Masters has ZERO grounds to prevent Smith from playing.

While I'm not a fan of the antitrust lawsuit, I am absolutely onside with eligible golfers suing the pants off of ANGC.

Rory is right for ripping on LIV for tearing the pro game apart, but the blame truly rests with the PGA Tour for creating the environment for all this to happen.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

The Masters has ZERO grounds to prevent Smith from playing.

While I'm not a fan of the antitrust lawsuit, I am absolutely onside with eligible golfers suing the pants off of ANGC.

Rory is right for ripping on LIV for tearing the pro game apart, but the blame truly rests with the PGA Tour for creating the environment for all this to happen.

Augusta can do what they want, they are a private entity and set their own rules. A little legal threat has never worried them much in the past.

As far as anti-trust, liv is the only entity here acting in an anti-competitive nature. What they are doing is very similar to predatory pricing, which is illegal across the country.

I'm still not seeing much fault in the PGA tour and nothing that has transpired has proven there was a problem. I don't see how the PGA tour could have done anything to prepare for an entity throwing unlimited amounts of money with no concern for ever being profitable. Saudi's could theoretically do this to remove players from any established pro sport league if they wanted.

[Jason14h]

LIV doing to PGA what PGA did to the European tour

Why would anyone be surprised to see all the Europeans jumping ship

[Senator Clay Davis]

So with these latest defections we're probably looking at the final LIV field, at least for the foreseeable future. On the basis of the field alone, is it compelling? Does it make you want to watch? I'd give it a 5/10 for compelling field, there are some good players, but there are too many hangers on who are obviously there on their play from the early 2000s and not their recent play. And of the few currently good players there, only Smith is at or close to star status, the rest are potential stars....who will have a much harder time becoming stars on YouTube only.

But when you have a 5/10 compelling field in a 1/10 compelling event? Yeah I still don't see a path to success, at least in America. It's why they are probably targeting more international players, try and become to international tour and maybe poach some faded American stars ready for semi-retirement as a way to try and get some attention in America. But it feels like after this initial wave that LIV is gonna fade hard and only ever be talked about when their guys are contending at majors.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Augusta can do what they want, they are a private entity and set their own rules. A little legal threat has never worried them much in the past.

Arbitrarily excluding eligible players from competition is a very different threat. I think the USGA and the R&A will mind their P's and Q's and let the problem take care of itself. If a LIV golfer wants to qualify like any other golfer, so be it, Slumbers said exactly that during his remarks before the Open.

We will have to wait until April to see what unfolds.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Arbitrarily excluding eligible players from competition is a very different threat. I think the USGA and the R&A will mind their P's and Q's and let the problem take care of itself. If a LIV golfer wants to qualify like any other golfer, so be it, Slumbers said exactly that during his remarks before the Open.

We will have to wait until April to see what unfolds.

I don't think Augusta cares about anything. They will do what they want.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

So with these latest defections we're probably looking at the final LIV field, at least for the foreseeable future. On the basis of the field alone, is it compelling? Does it make you want to watch? I'd give it a 5/10 for compelling field, there are some good players, but there are too many hangers on who are obviously there on their play from the early 2000s and not their recent play. And of the few currently good players there, only Smith is at or close to star status, the rest are potential stars....who will have a much harder time becoming stars on YouTube only.

But when you have a 5/10 compelling field in a 1/10 compelling event? Yeah I still don't see a path to success, at least in America. It's why they are probably targeting more international players, try and become to international tour and maybe poach some faded American stars ready for semi-retirement as a way to try and get some attention in America. But it feels like after this initial wave that LIV is gonna fade hard and only ever be talked about when their guys are contending at majors.

I think that's all pretty spot on. I wonder how much being on YouTube even really hurts. Far more people have access and spend more time watching streaming sources vs broadcast and cable in the US these days.

liv tournaments are getting less than half the viewers than Rick Shiels vs Good Good matches, Rick Shiels vs a 4 handicapper and far less than Paige Spiranic hitting golf balls in low cut dresses.

You're right that liv only gets attention when people are moving over. No one pays much attention to their tournaments. They might do a little better this weekend since the PGA has a rare off week, but it's also a big opening NCAA football weekend.

I don't know who their potential audience could be even. Most regular PGA tour watchers probably won't watch unless they are big fans of any of the players. liv is not resonating with junior golfers at all, from what I've seen. Fans of departed players, and fans of golf who don't like the pga tour are about all they have to draw from. I don't really see liv bringing in new golf fans.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm actually more bummed about Varner, he's a such a nice person and great ambassador. I was always cheering for him.

I guess we're almost getting to the point where golf is kind of ruined for the time being. No longer best on best and you can start to feel it. This year's playoffs already felt pretty blah to watch, felt like you were missing some key players.

Kind of like if the NHL had a startup league that successfully stole not all but a decent chunk of top end players. It would be the fans who lose as they start to lose interest without the allure of one league where the best play the best.

Varner’s social media post was pretty candid. Calling it a financial breakthrough that sets up his kids, his foundation.

I hope this tour utterly fails and guys like Varner get to keep their money.

[calgarygeologist]

This is a pretty interesting article with some insightful comments on the potential rift that might be forming on the PGA tour as they cater towards keeping the top players vs looking after all tour players.

https://golf.com/news/lone-dissenter...es-grievances/

“To prevent more players from leaving our Tour, we are ending up paying the top players in the world guaranteed money that has increased exponentially,” Hahn said. “Three years ago, we started implementing this new PIP program, which has grown to $100 million. It seems like the people who have the most influence of how much money is distributed to the top players in the world have a much stronger voice now than they’ve ever had.

“I understand the reasoning that the money is used to keep top players and without them, we have no Tour. My question to them is when is it enough? We’ve gone from $50 million to $100 million. When $100 million isn’t enough, will they ask for $200 million? How will that impact our business?”

"By asking the best players to play more and essentially the same schedule they are going to end up taking the same week off. Are they going to play the Honda Classic with its $8-million purse or the $20 million purses that surround it? I fear we could end up like the ATP (the pro tennis tour) where only a handful of events draw real interest. These are some of the things we had to think through before we voted.”

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

This is a pretty interesting article with some insightful comments on the potential rift that might be forming on the PGA tour as they cater towards keeping the top players vs looking after all tour players.

https://golf.com/news/lone-dissenter...es-grievances/

He contradicts himself a fair amount in the article, but it's understandable since the tour really has conflicting goals of keeping stars, non-stars and fans happy.

It's strange though to say that he doesn't like these changes, but at the same time saying they should have done them sooner and they might have been able to keep Bryson.

[transplant99]

The DP World Tour has asked the LIV Golf players scheduled to compete in next month's BMW PGA Championship to refrain from wearing LIV logos on their clothes, according to an email sent to the players from DP World Tour CEO Keith Pelley on Tuesday.

In the memo, Pelley informed the players that they "will not be required to play in the Wednesday Pro-Am and out of respect for our partners, our broadcasters and your fellow competitors, we would kindly ask you to consider not wearing LIV Golf-branded apparel during your participation at Wentworth."

A copy of the memo was obtained by ESPN. Two LIV Golf players who plan to compete in the BMW PGA Championship, set for Sept. 8-11 at Wentworth Club in Surrey, England, also confirmed receiving the email.

The Wall Street Journal reported Aug. 18 that LIV Golf contracts include a stipulation that its players must wear LIV Golf-branded clothing while competing on other circuits.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...a-championship

[DoubleK]

Gligic has a 2 shot lead after the first round of the KFT finals.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Gligic has a 2 shot lead after the first round of the KFT finals.

And still! Has a 2 shot lead.

Roger Sloan made the cut but will need to haul ass on the weekend to get a card. He will still have playing privileges out of a bad category, which means lots of Monday's and won't be able to set a schedule.

[DoubleK]

Gligic finished T3 today and ended up finishing 5th in the KFT finals to lock up his card for next year.

Roger Sloan WD and will play out of one of the veteran categories. Something like 32 ish, which is like 10 starts.

[jayswin]

Pretty crazy weekend in Boston with LIV golf!!!!