Nobody is telling truth in a poll, Kremlin or otherwise, in a country where you can get jailed for disapproving the "special operation". If some random would call me and ask whether I support the war, I would say that I absolutely do. I would gain nothing and risk a lot by saying otherwise.
I linked this article a while back which also talks about Russian polling:
As a sociologist, I can confirm that since the war, the number of people who agree to respond to opinion polls has collapsed to a level that is totally unrepresentative. Before the war it was below 30 percent, which is already very low. Now, it’s considered a big success when 10 percent agree to respond. Usually it’s 5 to 7 percent.
Given that I think it's safe to assume that people are most reluctant to answer polls if they have anti-Kremlin views, the 75% support for the war is actually kind of low.
If you ask a 100 people and only find 6 people who will openly say they support the war, that's not a lot even if only 2 people admit to not supporting it.
You guys may want to crack down harder on this. When I was in Kazakhstan last month, locals there tolerate no Z. There was a news report about Russian tourist wearing a t-shirt with Z. Locals called the police and he was ordered into hotel. Then a resident guy put Z on his car, others saw it and called police. Z was removed. There was even a news about some local shop named "Z-grocery" or something, that has been around for years and has nothing to do with the war. Police ordered them to change the name. They say we understand Z has nothing to do with the war here, but it breeds discontent and tensions in the community. Just get harder on this, tolerate no Z.
I have no love for the Russian occupation at all - my wife is of Ukrainian heritage and we have spent time in Ukraine. But I really don't like the idea of limiting speech in this manner.
Are these people #######s? Absolutely! Should that be allowed - yes. The government shouldn't get to decide who gets to express their opinion about world events - that's one of the big things that makes us different than Russia.
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Russia is selling nearly as much oil as it did before it invaded Ukraine and raking in more cash because of high prices despite the West’s push to hamstring President Vladimir Putin’s economy with crippling sanctions.
Boxed out by Europe, the Russians are finding export markets in new places, sending fuel oil — a lightly refined version of crude — to places like Saudi Arabia, where it is burned in power stations, and the United Arab Emirates, where it is blended with oil from other places, The Wall Street Journal reports.
Oil prices are coming down but still higher than a year ago, so Russia is earning $20 billion in average monthly sales compared to a $14.6 billion monthly average in 2021, the report said. That means Moscow is raking in more dough even though it is sending out 600,000 fewer barrels per day than at the start of the year.
I have no love for the Russian occupation at all - my wife is of Ukrainian heritage and we have spent time in Ukraine. But I really don't like the idea of limiting speech in this manner.
Are these people #######s? Absolutely! Should that be allowed - yes. The government shouldn't get to decide who gets to express their opinion about world events - that's one of the big things that makes us different than Russia.
I generally agree with this sentiment. And yet, Germany can ban Nazism without jeopardizing their status as one of the world's foremost liberal democracies.
I have no love for the Russian occupation at all - my wife is of Ukrainian heritage and we have spent time in Ukraine. But I really don't like the idea of limiting speech in this manner.
Are these people #######s? Absolutely! Should that be allowed - yes. The government shouldn't get to decide who gets to express their opinion about world events - that's one of the big things that makes us different than Russia.
But they are literally promoting murder, rape, torture and killing of innocent children. I could get freedom of speech angle if someone says things like "Crimea should belong to Russia" or even "Ukranians really genocide russian-speaking citizens". Those are opinions after all. But Z means supporting horrible things that are beyond imagination.
Germany does it right by banning nazism out right. Personal freedom be damned; sometimes you have to do what's right for the betterment of society and symbols matter.
However I don't think many Canadians would be on board with it. Canada doesn't even have a ban on displaying nazi symbols. Many people here are in a bubble with what's going on in Ukraine so I can't imagine a Z ban would go over very well.
I see a confederate flag, nazi flag, or Z on a car, I'm picking up a rock and fixing it.
Free speech is ok, but saying some stuff out loud has consequences. I am not talking about government locking you up or killing you consequences, but if you want to champion that type of view be prepared to catch a fist in the mouth at the very least.
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Maybe I'm just stating the obvious, but there's a bit of a difference between Nazism and Russia.
Yes, of course, however, if you accept hate symbols can be banned without major drawbacks, then it's a question of where do you draw the line.
I'm not sure if you specifically meant to say "Russia" or if you are you using it as shorthand for the present efforts of Russia to destroy Ukraine. Those two things, themselves, have a fair bit of difference between them. As far as I'm aware, the 'Z' symbol is specifically associated with the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
I see a confederate flag, nazi flag, or Z on a car, I'm picking up a rock and fixing it.
Free speech is ok, but saying some stuff out loud has consequences. I am not talking about government locking you up or killing you consequences, but if you want to champion that type of view be prepared to catch a fist in the mouth at the very least.
This goes beyond natural consequences and into illegal vigilantism. At that point, it would be better if the government was handling it.
I don't know, people might think they're making a point in equating Russia's crimes to Nazism, but to me it just minimizes just how uniquely horrific Nazism and the Holocaust was.
I'm not saying people shouldn't be repulsed by it if they see someone supporting Russia's criminal behavior, but there's a big step between that and having the government ban the display of something.
I don't know, people might think they're making a point in equating Russia's crimes to Nazism, but to me it just minimizes just how uniquely horrific Nazism and the Holocaust was.
I'm not saying people shouldn't be repulsed by it if they see someone supporting Russia's criminal behavior, but there's a big step between that and having the government ban the display of something.
No one is saying Russia = Nazi Germany. But to say there aren't similarities between today's Russia and many parts of Nazism is being disingenuous IMO.
Imperial Japan, while no less evil than the Nazis, is not a good comparison to today's Russia while the Nazis are.
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I don't know, people might think they're making a point in equating Russia's crimes to Nazism, but to me it just minimizes just how uniquely horrific Nazism and the Holocaust was.
I'm not saying people shouldn't be repulsed by it if they see someone supporting Russia's criminal behavior, but there's a big step between that and having the government ban the display of something.
Sorry but the Nazis werent that unique, while they were slaughtering their 6 million the British starved 2 to 3 million Indians to death for no good reason and Stalin and Mao's totals dwarfed Hitlers, the Nazi's lost which is why we are aware and castigate them but it is difficult to find a decade in the last 100 years were 1 or 2 million weren't killed for being in the wrong ethnic or religious sect, right now several million Yemanis are on the verge of death due to Saudi's war of extermination
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The issue with naziism and freedom of speech is interesting and more nuanced than most people think. Freedom of speech is generally protected. However, there are all sorts of exceptions. For example, I cannot state that verbally communicating my intent to traffic drugs is freedom of speech. Verbally threatening someone else is also definitely a crime.
So when you are using a symbol or promoting a philosophy that calls for violence against another person, when does that cross the line between freedom of speech and a threat. I can't outright say I want to kill another human being, so shouldn't a symbol that communicates exactly that also be illegal at some point? For example, if someone was dressed in Klan gear and pointing at visible minorities on the street, isn't that a threat?
Back to the Ukraine a lot of it would be situation specific IMO.
Interesting. He has a mixed legacy in Russia, but I think him and Putin hated each other. It'll be interested how his funeral and legacy is handled by the State amid the war now.
