Huberdeau and Weegar Signing Discussion Thread

[saillias]

Hard to gauge for a 29 year old who "got good" in his 26-27 year old season. Not the same situation as all the early 20s guys like Nurse, Jones, Werenski and Sergachev. And I think there's some regret in at least a couple of those deals already as is.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by saillias

Hard to gauge for a 29 year old who "got good" in his 26-27 year old season. Not the same situation as all the early 20s guys like Nurse, Jones, Werenski and Sergachev. And I think there's some regret in at least a couple of those deals already as is.

A similar and close to home example would be Giordano. Didn't get "good" until he was 26/27. Put up 30pts in 09/10 season (1 season before UFA) and was rewarded with a $4M x 5year deal. In the 10/11 season he put up 43pts. Had we waited until the summer of 2011 to sign him, the AAV would of been probably closer to $5.5M. Weegar is similar in that he's played at a top4 level the past 2 years and on a top5 NHL team to boot.

Not saying Weegar will turn out to be like Gio, but I'd argue in most of these cases, it's better to sign the player sooner rather than later.
I'm also of the opinion that it would be extremely difficult for him to turn down $40 - 50M right now. Hopefully we see a deal soon.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by AC

Vinny01 was talking about Darnell Nurse's contract.

Well that makes a huge difference.

I would pretty much say the opposite of what I said.

[Skyceman]

Tkachuk Unlikely to Live Up to Expectations with Panthers

The general consensus amongst fans was that the Flames were the winners of this deal, in particular, due to the fact that they had little leverage given the situation they were in. That said, many believed the Panthers were setting themselves up better for the future, as Tkachuk is a young player who appears to most as having sky-high potential after coming off of a 104-point season. However, those who expect similar production moving forward may come to find themselves disappointed with him and his new $9.5 million cap hit.

https://thehockeywriters.com/tkachuk...ikely-to-meet/

[jayswin]

Yeah, him and Gaudreau had monster seasons together that will be hard to replicate (even together if they had stayed).

I see him hitting 80-90 points most and that's still really good. But this deal was based on their GM believing and selling everyone on the fact that Tkachuk is a "unicorn" player. He'll end up being a really good forward that stirs things up, and that will be a disappointment relative to what the fans were sold on, considering the price they paid.

[MrMike]

I’d still be incredibly upset if my team was trying to win now and we traded Huberdeau for Tkachuk. I think trying to extend your window from 3-6 years is foolish rather than focusing on the next 2-3 years. Let alone everything else given up.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I’d still be incredibly upset if my team was trying to win now and we traded Huberdeau for Tkachuk. I think trying to extend your window from 3-6 years is foolish rather than focusing on the next 2-3 years. Let alone everything else given up.

Its so weird. They did it because they choked in the playoffs...yet they won a round for the first time since the mid-90s

Avs choked against Dallas and Vegas (who lost to Montreal) they are probably glad they didn't do something drastic.

Their GM must actually believe Tkachuk is generational, that is the only thing that makes sense.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its so weird. They did it because they choked in the playoffs...yet they won a round for the first time since the mid-90s

Avs choked against Dallas and Vegas (who lost to Montreal) they are probably glad they didn't do something drastic.

Their GM must actually believe Tkachuk is generational, that is the only thing that makes sense.

Well their GM is delusional then.

[Cole436]

I just don't understand this narrative that Tkachuk is a power forward that physically takes over games.

I'm sure he's going to do fine in Florida and will likely be a 60-80 point guy every year, but it feels like he's Jarome Iginla the way he's being talked about.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I just don't understand this narrative that Tkachuk is a power forward that physically takes over games.

I'm sure he's going to do fine in Florida and will likely be a 60-80 point guy every year, but it feels like he's Jarome Iginla the way he's being talked about.

I've never once seen:

-Tkachuk take over a game
-Use his antics to charge up our team and not the other team
-When we are down by one, I have never once thought "just wait Tkachuk will take another step and get us back in the game"

He seemed to always put up his points when the games were easy and high scoring.

To me he is a great side piece, and these days those are going for about 8 million per.

I still can't believe his value was Huberdeau +++. To me this will go down as the best trade in franchise history, especially considering cap considerations.

[Sandman]

I think Tkachuk settles in as a 70-80 pt winger in Florida. I don't know what Bill Zito was smoking the day he made that trade, but thanks to the Hockey gods for throwing us a bone.

If I were a Panthers fan, I would still be livid.

[Bingo]

Tkachuk's a good player, he'll do well with his contract. I don't think he'll see 100 points again, and probably settle in to a 75 point average, but that's still a first line hockey player.

I just don't understand trading all their futures for a window, and then giving their own rentals away to acquire less "now" assets for said window.

Baffling.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Tkachuk's a good player, he'll do well with his contract. I don't think he'll see 100 points again, and probably settle in to a 75 point average, but that's still a first line hockey player.

I just don't understand trading all their futures for a window, and then giving their own rentals away to acquire less "now" assets for said window.

Baffling.

Yeah, exactly. The change for Florida has been billed around extending "the window" by replacing older players like Huberdeau and Weeger with Tkachuk, who fits more closely into the 24-28-year-old demographic of much of the rest of the roster. But this sure does feel like sacrificing a better chance at immediate success for more years of settling into a lower teir of Cup competitors.

And the loss of two players who were top-two at their positions on the team is bound to have an impact. Huberdeau made Sam Bennett a second-line centre. What happens to that line now that he is gone? How does Ekblad respond in Weegar's absence?

Florida will be a very interesting team to watch this year.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Major Major]

Just have to remember this is all predicated on Bill Zito's idea that Tkachuk is "generational unicorn" talent. He doesn't see a 100 point winger, he sees the best all around player in the league and a playoff hero.

We all know that's super weird and wonder if he's watched much Tkachuk, but if you think that way, it makes perfect sense to give up everything he did to get him.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Just have to remember this is all predicated on Bill Zito's idea that Tkachuk is "generational unicorn" talent. He doesn't see a 100 point winger, he sees the best all around player in the league and a playoff hero.

We all know that's super weird and wonder if he's watched much Tkachuk, but if you think that way, it makes perfect sense to give up everything he did to get him.

Like many I've been pondering Florida and Zito's side of the equation.

I think possibly, a different dynamic was happening regards his view of his cap and what Florida had to deal with next year.

He has 2 x 10 mill a year guys Barkov and Bobrovsky and a defenseman worth every penny of 7.5.. He can spend to the Cap! However he has no players on LTIR and has no history of buying an LTIR player to meet the Cap ala' Vegas. He needs to stay compliant and has a 29 year old star winger due a big raise and a 28 year old 1st pair defender due a big raise.

While pondering how the heck he's going to do that he sees Johnny Guadreau walk for no return for Calgary.

This is where I think Zito zigged when he should have zagged. He knows he needs to pear his Cap down and he knows in two years he also could watch a couple of his guys walk with zero return. (he has Bobrovsky who did just that to Columbus).

Instead of seeing Calgarys problems he saw his own future next year. I suspect he quietly called Treliving first knowing Calgary could afford both oldler players with Guadreau walking and he proposed the 2 for 1. Treliving simply hemmed and hawwed and got the sweeteners. Florida IS still chasing after Tampa!

Zito is thinking about his cap net year and FWIW he's still 3.3 over! BTW thats even after saving aproximately 5-6 mill by trading for 23 year old Tkachuk. Still moves to be made to stay complaint.

I don't think Zito was always after Tkachuk but I think he did know Tkachuk was also coming due next year, that 9 mill was a Tkachuk type number that he could afford and "maybe he could work a deal".

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I've never once seen:

-Tkachuk take over a game
-Use his antics to charge up our team and not the other team
-When we are down by one, I have never once thought "just wait Tkachuk will take another step and get us back in the game"

He seemed to always put up his points when the games were easy and high scoring.

To me he is a great side piece, and these days those are going for about 8 million per.

I still can't believe his value was Huberdeau +++. To me this will go down as the best trade in franchise history, especially considering cap considerations.

I mentioned this in another thread but Tkachuk went on an absolute heater to finish the season, with 38 points in his final 20 games. That's a run that he's never matched at any other point in his career. Before that, he had 66 points in 62 games, still great, but that final 20 games really pushed him from being slightly above a PPG to the 100 point player that Bill Zito thinks he is getting. Definitely an outlier.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Its so weird. They did it because they choked in the playoffs...yet they won a round for the first time since the mid-90s

Avs choked against Dallas and Vegas (who lost to Montreal) they are probably glad they didn't do something drastic.

Their GM must actually believe Tkachuk is generational, that is the only thing that makes sense.

Tkachuk isn’t a good enough skater. The only thing generational about him is his mouth.

[bax]

Even if he settles in around 75-85 points on average that is still a great contract.

9.5 seems a bit shocking at first, but it has him tied for 27th biggest cap hit in the league. That’s more than fair for what Tkachuk brings imo.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bax

Even if he settles in around 75-85 points on average that is still a great contract.

9.5 seems a bit shocking at first, but it has him tied for 27th biggest cap hit in the league. That’s more than fair for what Tkachuk brings imo.

I think the contract is fine, but I am not sure I would call it "great." It is right in the wheelhouse of market value; perhaps a little on the high end.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I just don't understand this narrative that Tkachuk is a power forward that physically takes over games.

I'm sure he's going to do fine in Florida and will likely be a 60-80 point guy every year, but it feels like he's Jarome Iginla the way he's being talked about.

It's the narrative that's been pushed across the league in highlights. Tkachuk will make highlights with insane, between the legs goals and then you'll also see some crazy fight action where he throws a hip check and everyone goes crazy.

If you watch a lot of hockey highlights I could see thinking Tkachuck is out there hitting everything that moves and scoring goals every night. Then you add in a unicorn season for him point wise and I can see the perception that he's a way better player than he is.

Our gain.