Who was the best Goalie of all time?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Georges Vezina

[FlamesAddiction]

A lot of those saves really highlight how terrible the team in front of him was. In a strange way, playing behind a bunch of scrubs probably forced him to elevate his game. I wonder how many mini heart attacks they gave him.

[Oil Stain]

Hasek for me.

He was both better and more entertaining to watch than any other goalie from his era.

I don't really want to get into comparing guys like him and Roy to players from eras before I was born and scant video exists.

[foofighter15]

Originally Posted by moneyguy

homer

how dare you!?!?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

To me, it's all about elevating your game in the playoffs. If you do a statistical analysis of Hasek and Brodeur, you'll find their regular season stats were very similar to their playoff stats. Do the same for Roy, and you'll discover he was a completely different goalie in the playoffs than he was in the regular season.

And yet Hasek's career save percentage is better than Roy for both the Regular Season, and the Playoffs. Even if you normalize out the late 80s where Roy would have had a lower save percentage just based on how the game was played.

Hasek didn't have to elevate his game - he was always the best.

Once again if you compare career playoff numbers when they were active and in their prime in the same era (91-02 to 02-03) then it looks like this:

Hasek: .927; 2.02; 94 GP
Roy: .922; 2.21; 170 GP
Brodeur: .921; 1.84; 139 GP

Head to head, in the biggest moments, Hasek was 2-0 against Roy (1998 Olympics, 2002 Western Conference Finals).

Also the idea Roy dragged bad teams to the finals is False:

1986: Had lost in the 2nd round the year before, 87 points and finished 7th in regular season

1989: Had lost in the 2nd round the year before, 115 points and finished 2nd in the regular season

1993: Had lost in the 2nd round the year before. 102 points and finished 7th in the regular season.

1996: Were in first in division before the trade for Roy. 104 points and finished 2nd in the regular season.

2001: 118 points and won the Presidents Trophy on a team full of Hall of Famers. Finished 1st in the regular season.

So the worst a team he took to the finals finished in the regular season was 7th, and three of them were top 2 in the league. Just carried the team though.

Hasek's teams in Buffalo never finished above 95 points, and that's with him averaging a .928 save percentage and 2.17 GAA from 93-94 to 00-01. He dragged those Sabres teams to relevance.

To me this is the craziest stat. If you replace Hasek's .928 save percentage with Buffalo from 93-94 to 00-01, with Patrick Roy .915 save percentage for those same years (Roy is second best in the NHL over that time) then Buffalo would have allowed 173 more goals against, or 22 goals per season.

173 MORE GOALS AGAINST REPLACING HASEK WITH ROY.

[flylock shox]

Roy and Brodeur were two of the best conventional- if we can call them that - goalies I've seen in my lifetime.

But Hasek falls into that rare category where he's almost another species. It's like Gretzky's vision, McDavid's foot and hand speed, or Usain Bolt's running - they're just in a different category from even other best-in-the-world type players. Guys that do things that almost make you laugh - it's so absurd what they can do against even top flight competitors. Hasek was hilarious at times in that way.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

First of all, he only won one Smythe in Colorado. He won the other two in MTL on teams that most certainly were not stacked.

The 85-86 Habs team finished 2nd in their division and 7th in the NHL. The following season they finished 5th in the NHL. So call them emerging elite. By Roy’s second trip to the finals in 89, they finished 2nd in the league in the regular season.

Roy played on much better teams than Hasek, with much more opportunity to showcase his play in playoff series.

[Dion]

For me it has to be Tony Esposito. He holds the modern day record of 15 shutouts during his 1969-70 season with the Blackhawks. He also won the Calder Trophy that same season. All without the advantage of bigger and lighter goalie equipment. He also played the butterfly style as opposed to the standup that other golaies used.

Awards:

1969 - NHL Calder
1969 - NHL Vezina
1969 - NHL First Team All-Star
1971 - NHL Vezina shared
1971 - NHL First Team All-Star
1972 - NHL Second Team All-Star
1973 - NHL Vezina tie
1973 - NHL Second Team All-Star
1979 - NHL First Team All-Star

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

...To me, it's all about elevating your game in the playoffs. If you do a statistical analysis of Hasek and Brodeur, you'll find their regular season stats were very similar to their playoff stats. Do the same for Roy, and you'll discover he was a completely different goalie in the playoffs than he was in the regular season.

All this goes to show is that unlike Hasek Roy was only dominant in the post season, and strong arguments have already been made to demonstrate that despite his TEAM success, Roy was also not as good a playoff goaltender as was Hasek.


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[Buff]

Top 3 is definitely the 3 goalies listed. I change my mind all the time. A case can be made for all three. Today I felt Brodeur.

[troutman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gump_Worsley

At the time of his retirement, Worsley had played more games than any goalie except for Terry Sawchuk and Glenn Hall.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Roy and Brodeur were two of the best conventional- if we can call them that - goalies I've seen in my lifetime.

But Hasek falls into that rare category where he's almost another species. It's like Gretzky's vision, McDavid's foot and hand speed, or Usain Bolt's running - they're just in a different category from even other best-in-the-world type players. Guys that do things that almost make you laugh - it's so absurd what they can do against even top flight competitors. Hasek was hilarious at times in that way.

Basically Roy = Howe. A great player who nonetheless played a conventional style, aided by physical attributes and with a lot of longevity on his side. Hasek = Gretzky. An unconventional style who simply played in a style few have replicated well, if at all, and who no one could really figure out successfully.

[Itse]

Just based on my feelings watching those guys play, I'm picking Hasek.

He was just something else.

[stone156]

Originally Posted by Dion

For me it has to be Tony Esposito. He holds the modern day record of 15 shutouts during his 1969-70 season with the Blackhawks. He also won the Calder Trophy that same season. All without the advantage of bigger and lighter goalie equipment. He also played the butterfly style as opposed to the standup that other golaies used.

Awards:

1969 - NHL Calder
1969 - NHL Vezina
1969 - NHL First Team All-Star
1971 - NHL Vezina shared
1971 - NHL First Team All-Star
1972 - NHL Second Team All-Star
1973 - NHL Vezina tie
1973 - NHL Second Team All-Star
1979 - NHL First Team All-Star

and don't forget his role in the '72 Canada Russia series. We don't win that without him. Dryden was not Dryden in those games.

[powderjunkie]

Best = Hasek

Greatest = Roy

For me, best is purely on-ice play for that player's peak period, regardless of things like team success.

Greatness factors more longevity, awards, team success, and probably a lot of exaggerated intangible traits like leadership.

[Sainters7]

Yeah the longevity is partly why I give it to Roy. At his absolute peak in the late 90s, I've never seen a goalie as good as Hasek. But it's just hard to GOAT him when his NHL career was shorter and Roy's was so much longer and so decorated.

I also notice Hasek only played 45+ games in a season 8 times. Roy did it literally twice as many times. Was Roy more durable? That and for all his accolades, his only Cup was on an absolutely stacked Wings team (I know Roy's last title was the same).

Especially with goalies, I know things like titles can seem arbitrary. But when talking about who's literally the best ever, championships and longevity should matter. Isn't that why Brady has pulled away from Manning/Montana in QB GOAT talk the past 4-5 years?

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Vladislav Tretiak to add some international flavor to it

We did note him earlier in this thread. For those of us who saw him play (on TV ) he was unbelievable and not a flopper at all, very steady stable and lightening quick. Many of us believe the 72 series wouldn't have been as close if not for that russian bear they had in net.

[Flamesfan05]

Roy

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

Especially with goalies, I know things like titles can seem arbitrary. But when talking about who's literally the best ever, championships and longevity should matter. Isn't that why Brady has pulled away from Manning/Montana in QB GOAT talk the past 4-5 years?

But Hasek actually played later into his life than Roy did, retiring after he turned 43. Ordinarily, I would agree that longevity counts for a lot, but I also think that Hasek is a special case, since his NHL career only started as a result of the Soviet collapse. Hasek was 25-years old before he even played a game in North America. His shorter career was not because of his inability to maintain a high level of play later in life. Rather, it is because he played behind the Iron Curtain until he was in his mid-twenties, by which time Roy was already a star. How much better does his entire body of work look if he was playing elite hockey in North America already as a teenager?

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[jayswin]

^^^^^

Yep, Hasek was the greatest of all time, easily. Not just a special goalie, but a special athlete.