[Rumour] Flames Not Yet Done - More to Come? Possible D for F?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Seems to me that speed on the right side of Lindholm is not much of a necessity for success.

You need a finisher in that spot....there is one in house already. One who also kills penalties and isnt 35 years old.

I like Kessel as a potential fit with Kadri and Mangiapane on the second line. He and Kadri have some chemistry and it allows Coleman to stick with Backlund on the third line. I like how the roster slots with Kessel in the mix

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Toffoli
Mangiapane-Kadri-Kessel
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Rooney-Lewis
Ruzicka

Hanifin-Andersson
Weegar-Tanev
Zadorov-Kylington
Mackey

Markstrom
Vladar

Pelletier marinates for one more year (also first call up for injury) he definitely is on the roster next year when the cap crunch hits with Huberdeau and Weegar’s raises kick in.

[Number 39]

I question if Kessel would even want to play in Calgary. He got chewed up in the high pressure Toronto market, has won his cups and made his $. At this point in his career he seems like a guy who enjoys the anonymity of playing in a non traditional marketplace. Would he really want to put himself under the microscope for a fairly small contract by his standards?

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Looking around the league for a RW that might be available and come cheap. Palmieri from the Islanders is a good fit. Plays the type of game that would work on the first line. Kapanen in Pittsburgh is also a guy that plays the right game. I wonder if Reilly Smith could be had in Vegas? Not a huge fan of either player, but Garland or Eberle could bring some finish. Still think we need one more RW to replace Tkachuk on the top line and these guys would be a good fit. The option I keep going back to though is Landphil Kessel. He's a finisher that was snake but last season, so might be worth a cheap contract as a gamble.

The greedy me wants Tarasenko but I see no way of acquiring him for a reasonable price. I think Eberle would be a great fit and I fully agree we need one more winger. It would be really nice to roll some version of:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Eberle
Mangiapane-Kadri-Toffoli
Dube-Backlund-Coleman

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

At seasons start the ages of "young" dmen will be:

Mackey 26
Hanifin 25
Valimaki 24

Actually, it's:

Mackey 26
Andersson 25
Hanifin 25
Kylington 25
Valimaki 24

The idea that the team isn't giving young guys the chance is pretty silly.

Also, anyone who watched Heat games last year knows that Valimaki isn't close. He was no where near their best defenseman last year. Penciling him into the lineup is ridiculous, and isn't happening (unless he comes to camp having taken a HUGE step forward)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Number 39

I question if Kessel would even want to play in Calgary. He got chewed up in the high pressure Toronto market, has won his cups and made his $. At this point in his career he seems like a guy who enjoys the anonymity of playing in a non traditional marketplace. Would he really want to put himself under the microscope for a fairly small contract by his standards?

Does the same amount of pressure come when a player is a 1-2M support piece vs an 8M franchise level player?

The pressure for this team is on Huberdeau, Kadri, Mangiapane, Lindholm, Backlund, Coleman and all the players who would be making more. Phil wouldn’t really have the pressure. Comes down to fit and opportunity in my opinion.

To me a team like Vegas makes more sense so maybe that is where he lands but Calgary could definitely use another right shot who can play in the top 6 and appear more stable as a contender next year

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What would Kessel provide that Toffoli doesnt?

It isn't what Toffoli does or doesn't bring to the table, it's what the missing body in the lineup brings to the table, which is nothing. We need someone that can contribute in the top six, preferably on the top line. We need another guy that has shown they can find the gaps and finish what Huberbeau is going to setup.

[dustygoon]

We lost Gudbranson and Tkachuk. I hear the calls for a scorer, but knowing this GM and coach, I think sorting league player stats by PIM's and hits and focusing on the top 20 in each category will reveal who we add next.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

The greedy me wants Tarasenko but I see no way of acquiring him for a reasonable price. I think Eberle would be a great fit and I fully agree we need one more winger. It would be really nice to roll some version of:

Huberdeau-Lindholm-Eberle
Mangiapane-Kadri-Toffoli
Dube-Backlund-Coleman

We can't add cap without moving similar out.

I think we can assume that Lucic is going no where, otherwise I assume a first round pick would not have been sacrificed for moving Monny.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Actually, it's:

Mackey 26
Andersson 25
Hanifin 25
Kylington 25
Valimaki 24

The idea that the team isn't giving young guys the chance is pretty silly.

Also, anyone who watched Heat games last year knows that Valimaki isn't close. He was no where near their best defenseman last year. Penciling him into the lineup is ridiculous, and isn't happening (unless he comes to camp having taken a HUGE step forward)

Feels like I’ve been beating this drum for the past couple weeks on CP with all the talk of trading a defenseman for a forward, but here we go again.

Everybody watched the playoffs right? Does everybody remember what happened when Tanev got taken out of the line up and Zadorov/Kylington had to play through minor injuries?

Everybody had to step up and take on more responsibility, more minutes, and tougher matchups. What was the outcome? Our defense was exposed- it just wasn’t good enough.

Treliving then went out and added a massive piece on the backend. Weegar eases that burden on everybody. When we run into injuries this season (and we will) it will be much easier to handle.

Trading away one of Weegar, Hanifin, Tanev, or Andersson leave us in the same predicament we were last year. I see people arguing “it’s a position of strength” and I agree it is. Let’s leave it that way and use it as a strategic advantage over other teams.

I do agree that one more piece up front would be helpful, but that is much easier to acquire either via free agency (Rodrigues, Kessel, Milano) or via trade during the season or at the deadline.

It’s near impossible to go out and find a defenseman at this time of year that can play on your top pairing.

Depth is so important when it comes to the playoffs. I know the Flames have 10 guys on one way contracts, but Gilbert, Meloche, Valimaki, Mackey, and Stone is depth that can fill in on the bottom pairing, nothing more. Penciling any of these guys into full time roles will not end well for the Flames.

I think some people tend to forget just how young Hanifin, Andersson, and Kylington are too. They are only getting better. You need to keep these guys.

[Jason14h]

I think part of the argument is that Anderson and Hanifin couldn’t handle the top line of Edmonton .

So if they can’t play first pairing D in playoffs why not move one for forward help .

Depth D doesn’t matter if the depth can’t stop the oppositions best players

We didn’t loose against Edmonton because Stone was forced to play .

Now if the team believes one or both of Anderson and Hanifin have another level still you can absolutely run them out there again. If the team believes either has peaked looking to acquire a similarly aged and skills forward makes sense

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Number 39

I question if Kessel would even want to play in Calgary. He got chewed up in the high pressure Toronto market, has won his cups and made his $. At this point in his career he seems like a guy who enjoys the anonymity of playing in a non traditional marketplace. Would he really want to put himself under the microscope for a fairly small contract by his standards?

Also, does he want to deal with Sutter at this stage of his career?

[bax]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I think part of the argument is that Anderson and Hanifin couldn’t handle the top line of Edmonton .

So if they can’t play first pairing D in playoffs why not move one for forward help .

Depth D doesn’t matter if the depth can’t stop the oppositions best players

We didn’t loose against Edmonton because Stone was forced to play .

Now if the team believes one or both of Anderson and Hanifin have another level still you can absolutely run them out there again. If the team believes either has peaked looking to acquire a similarly aged and skills forward makes sense

I’m not following the logic here?

The D wasn’t good enough so let’s make it worse in the name of adding to the forward group?

Besides, Hanifin and Andersson we’re awesome all season long. Trading one of them away because you weren’t happy with a 5 game sample at the end of the year isn’t a great idea.

[CliffFletcher]

If the loss of Tanev was so catastrophic against the Oilers, maybe the other d-men aren’t as strong as the fancy stats say.

[Roof-Daddy]

I'd be on board with trading Hanifin for top 6 forward help if Valimaki had developed as expected, but he hasn't.

Leave the starting 6 D alone IMO.

Kessel had 52 points last year on a garbage team and you don't have to give up a Dman to get him and you probably don't have to sign him for more than 1 year.

That's the move I'd look to make.

[bax]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the loss of Tanev was so catastrophic against the Oilers, maybe the other d-men aren’t as strong as the fancy stats say.

I wouldn’t say losing Tanev to injury is catastrophic, but it definitely makes everybody’s job tougher.

We’re much better equipped to deal with potential injuries now and will be that much better when everyone is healthy. I don’t understand the desire to subtract from the D core. I don’t see a forward out there that would make it even close to worth it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I think part of the argument is that Anderson and Hanifin couldn’t handle the top line of Edmonton .

So if they can’t play first pairing D in playoffs why not move one for forward help .

Depth D doesn’t matter if the depth can’t stop the oppositions best players

We didn’t loose against Edmonton because Stone was forced to play .

Now if the team believes one or both of Anderson and Hanifin have another level still you can absolutely run them out there again. If the team believes either has peaked looking to acquire a similarly aged and skills forward makes sense

1) very small sample size
2) with Tanev out and Kylington and Gudbranson banged up, MOST of the heavy minutes fell to Hanifin and Andersson
3) Hanifin's TOI went up by 2 full minutes in the playoffs, vs the regular season

The playoffs are a different beast - some teams get on a roll, others do not. The sample size is tiny, and matchups matter A LOT. In a single series, if you're matched up against a line that is playing well, your numbers are going to suck.

Did Hanifin struggle against the Oilers? Absolutely. Is there anyone on the Flames' D that didn't? No.

Trading good young defensemen away, and making the D weaker, does not seem like the greatest strategy to fixing the problem of our D not being good enough against the Oilers.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the loss of Tanev was so catastrophic against the Oilers, maybe the other d-men aren’t as strong as the fancy stats say.

Or, maybe context matters. And 5 game sample sizes need to be analyzed for what they are and not projected outward

Also, if you have 4 good defensemen, and lose one, that hurts a lot more than if you have 5 good defensemen and lose 1

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by cral12

Kessel's longtime girlfriend Sandra Pereira gave birth to their first child, daughter Kapri Mary Kessel, on March 9, 2022."

Go get 'em Tiger!

[Enoch Root]

March 9th is the 68th day of the year - should have named her Jarimera or Jagrina

(which also begs the question for March 10th )

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I think part of the argument is that Anderson and Hanifin couldn’t handle the top line of Edmonton .

So if they can’t play first pairing D in playoffs why not move one for forward help .

I just want to point out that there are two types of "first pairings"

1a) A first pairing you pair with your top scoring line to generate offense
1b) A first pairing you pair with your top matchup line to generate transition and take away space from the other team's top players

These two aren't always mutually inclusive. People often forget that Ryan McDonagh for instance had been tasked with a lot of the Lighting's matchups during their cup runs, while Hedman got more offensive usage.

When healthy, last year I am pretty sure Sutter was using Tanev's pair in the latter role. They took more defensive zone matchups, and generally seemed to see more icetime with the Backlund line. On the flipside, Hanifin and Andersson were the former role. They were basically put out there whenever Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk were out there. Someone can fact-check me on that but I think it made sense just based on what my eyes told me. I think I posted some stats a few weeks ago that seemed to lean this way as well.

- Out of our top four, Tanev was the least offensive-minded Dman and most defensively sound Dman
- Kylington's vision, passing, skating allowed for better zone-exits, tight NZ gaps, and more won foot-races out of D-zone draws.
- Andersson and Hanifin seemed to be the most comfortable of our D in the offensive zone out of the cycle.

There were some wrenches thrown into that (Kylington's shoulder injury after that Minnesota game, and Tanev's labrum/shoulder/neck injuries during the Oilers series), but even then, in the final couple of games, that was the pair primarily tasked with the McDavid matchup, and they were actually pretty effective.

I think the idea that Kylington is a bottom pair defenseman who "needed to be sheltered by Chris Tanev" is the greatest myth of last season. Kylington-Tanev was a more effective pair than any pair Chris Tanev has played on in his career, whether with Alex Edler or Quinn Hughes. Yes, Kylington had some visible coordination screwups, especially after that injury, but those weigh so heavily in viewers' minds that they have essentially missed the importance of that pair. That pair was a huge part of last year's success. And not having them for a handful of games was why Hanifin and Andersson got isolated and attacked in the first place.

Personally, I do think I would prefer a Weegar-Andersson "top (1a above) pair". And I actually do think Hanifin should be moved out, but not because he failed at his role. But rather because I don't trust his hockey sense and composure overall, and that's based on his whole body of work as a Flame. To me, Hanifin is a fairweather beast - really lights it up when it's easy, but can't elevate when it's tight. I would be willing to move him for that reason.

But I don't think there was anything wrong with our blueline when healthy last year and played in the roles Sutter wanted for them.