Are the Flames BETTER than they were in 2021-22?

[CaptainCrunch]

Yes, the depth alone on the blueline makes us better, losing Tanev for the second round was a big factor in losing to that crap team.

Up front, MT hasn't been a good playoff performer. We got a guy with a jerk factor/snarl that's a proven playoff guy. Thanks that's a win.

The battle of the Johnny's is a saw off.

Yeah, I think this team is a bit better regular season wise. Playoff wise, probably like it a lot better.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The (minor) problem there is none of our centers are elite like our wingers were.

I do sometimes wonder if Gaudreau and Tkachuk were truly elite players individually, or if Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk just had that magic chemistry and were an elite line.

Nobody was calling Gaudreau or Tkachuk elite after their 19-20 and 20-21 seasons.

As a whole Huberdeau=Gaudreau, actually over a longer time horizon going back to 18-19 then Huberdeau>Gaudreau and has produced at an elite clip no matter who he was playing with. So we did replace one of the elite wingers with another elite winger.

So really it's if the downgrade from one elite winger in Tkachuk, is offset by more center depth (Kadri), more defensive depth (Weegar), and a full season with Toffoli (which I think sometimes gets overlooked that he was just a deadline acquistiion that only played 37 games).

The other thing I like is I think a lot of these guys will have a chip on their shoulder this season. Guys who are still on the Flames probably something to prove to Gaudreau/Tkachuk that they made a mistake, Huberdeau and Weegar really want to prove that Florida messed up, Kadri will want to show he wasn't just a product of the skill around him in Colorado, etc.

The other key will be finding fast chemistry with all the changes - I'm guessing we see another pre-season where Sutter has his NHL roster set from pretty much day 1. No messing around.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I do sometimes wonder if Gaudreau and Tkachuk were truly elite players individually, or if Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk just had that magic chemistry and were an elite line.

Nobody was calling Gaudreau or Tkachuk elite after their 19-20 and 20-21 seasons.

As a whole Huberdeau=Gaudreau, actually over a longer time horizon going back to 18-19 then Huberdeau>Gaudreau and has produced at an elite clip no matter who he was playing with. So we did replace one of the elite wingers with another elite winger.

So really it's if the downgrade from one elite winger in Tkachuk, is offset by more center depth (Kadri), more defensive depth (Weegar), and a full season with Toffoli (which I think sometimes gets overlooked that he was just a deadline acquistiion that only played 37 games).

The other thing I like is I think a lot of these guys will have a chip on their shoulder this season. Guys who are still on the Flames probably something to prove to Gaudreau/Tkachuk that they made a mistake, Huberdeau and Weegar really want to prove that Florida messed up, Kadri will want to show he wasn't just a product of the skill around him in Colorado, etc.

The other key will be finding fast chemistry with all the changes - I'm guessing we see another pre-season where Sutter has his NHL roster set from pretty much day 1. No messing around.

I don’t know about Tkachuk

But Gaudreau has elite skills….that’s not even debatable

[Barnet Flame]

Only time will tell if we’re better now than before the summer. But I can honestly say that Brad has brought me from the depths of despair to being hopeful for what the coming season brings.

[GGG]

I think one thing is that a top 6 rental winger is always available at the trade deadline for far too much draft capital. But if this team is playing up to expectations and our window is 2-3 years you can burn those firsts adding wingers for a cup run.

[jlh2640]

No question they are way better on paper. . . .

Need another winger, can it be Pelletier? Sonny Milano?

Brett Ritchie I think will also be back

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I don’t know about Tkachuk

But Gaudreau has elite skills….that’s not even debatable

Which I fully agree with...both guys have elite skill sets but haven't been consistently elite the last 4 seasons IMO

[Freddy]

I think the Flames roster is better now and also gives Sutter more of the tools he wants. We have more experience vs untapped potential and are stronger in the more important positions (defence, center).
In 3 or 4 years the Flames will be burdened with overpriced contracts on post apex players, but until then there is a window to being contenders every season. I think Tre has worked hard to build a competitor without the benefit of elite prospects/draft picks and if the Flames achieve success he should be given due credit.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Which I fully agree with...both guys have elite skill sets but haven't been consistently elite the last 4 seasons IMO

Yeah, Tkachuk skating is what keeping him back and I am not a big fan of his trickery

[All In Good Time]

I was of the mind that they were possibly better even before the Kadri singing.
Weegar in Tkachuk out. Lose up front but stronger/deeper defensive group.
Huberdeau in Gaudreau out. Similar skill set except we got bigger and a bit tougher.
Plus, obviously Tkatchuk and Gaudreau weren’t committed to being here anyway. Attitude counts.
Now, with Kadri signing, I don’t even think it’s a question if they are better or not.
Naturally, chemistry will be the final indicator.
However, we’ve seen what the old core has done, they have had multiple chances and have proved underwhelming. So, its like we have no where to go but up.

[USflamesfan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Which I fully agree with...both guys have elite skill sets but haven't been consistently elite the last 4 seasons IMO

Gaudreau Will never lead a team deep into the playoffs. IMO he will drop off early 30s. Other teams know how to play him in playoffs. Tchakuk is kinda narcissitic, he thinks he is more than he is. He cannot drive a team without an elite passer with him. In Florida, I think he will diminish because the elite passer is now playing with the Flames. Kadri is an intense competitor and will be used against MCDavid. Sutter won his Stanley Cups with being deep at center. He always has said that. The Flames now have 3 elite 2 way centers and so I think they are much better as a team and built for playoffs. Last year, shut down the top line and the Flames were very limited.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Agreed

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/....php?pid=96553

Kadri is a career 0.70 pts per game. That's a 57 point player a season (Who is getting out of his prime in theory)

By comparison MT is a 0.88 PPG player entering his prime.

If people are expecting Kadri to replace what MT brings offensively I think they will be really disappointed.

Kadri will most likely be around 25 goals and 60 points. There's nothing wrong with that, but the Flames either need another top winger or someone internally to really take the next step - Dube or a rookie

I'm in the boat of "They are about the same" - And that's not a bad thing when you loose your 2 best players. It's actually almost a miracle.

Difference being I think pretty much anyone could have slotted into the top line with Gaudreau and Lindholm and produced last year. Mangiapane, Dube, Toffoli. They would have been fine and gotten a points boost. Not 100 points but certainly an improvement.

Kadri on the otherhand is likely going to be a line driver. He's going to be boosting the points of whoevers line he's on. May even help other lines produce more with the increased difficulty of line match ups.

Backlund may get a friendly matchup every once in a while

[Macho0978]

I personally believe just due to who Huberdeau played with vs Gaudreau that Huberdeau is better. But the difference is not worth arguing over if the symbol is > or = or <.

I do disagree with we simply added depth on D. Not suggesting we added Makar but you can make a case that Weegar should be our best dman. Probably takes over our top pp unit and probably leads d in ice time. We added depth on d by adding possibly our best dman. The impact could be significant.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I learned long ago to stop trying to predict how good the Flames are on paper. I remember a lot of cup predictions after the other Sutter and Bouwmeester joined the team, then they went and missed the playoffs for 5 straight years. I just hope that if they do make the playoffs they're a lot harder to play against and not so mentally fragile against the goddamn Oilers

[Zulu29]

Huberdeau and Gaudreau are a wash, Kadri plays the more important position than Tkachuk and I like his game more (straight up grit vs Tkachuk playing games) and then we added a top D man in Weegar. Everything points to us being a better team and I would think better suited for playoff hockey.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I learned long ago to stop trying to predict how good the Flames are on paper. I remember a lot of cup predictions after the other Sutter and Bouwmeester joined the team, then they went and missed the playoffs for 5 straight years. I just hope that if they do make the playoffs they're a lot harder to play against and not so mentally fragile against the goddamn Oilers

I for one want them to handle the losers up north handily (E.g. 5-1), every single time they play them...period. It is just such a hit to the fans when they lose to those no goods. It is just not acceptable in my mind.

[dammage79]

Yeah theres a big difference between looking great on paper and actually seeing it work out on the ice. Player chemistry is real, and if players aren't synching up it's gonna be a tough go of it.

[Itse]

Better, worse, who knows. This offseason might look fantastic or it might look terrible in a few years, who knows.

But the team is different now, and at least the offseason hasn't been boring.

[cral12]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1560767821172199425

[wired]

Imo, the flames got better after young Matthew was traded, and we got the return we did.

Adding Kadri to the team is another boost.

I think the flames are a better team from last year.