[Signing] Flames sign Kadri (7 years, $7m AAV)

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Instead of focusing on the strengths of this team, maybe it is a worthwhile endeavour to get our heads out of the clouds and look at this team's weaknesses, and see where they may have issues.

.....

Defence: I would say top 5 team there too. Where in the top 5? I don't know, but that's some seriously good quality from 1-6. The only possible gripe here is there is no franchise-level game-breaker, but this is a very good 1-6 group that were solidly in the top 5 last year by every metric that I saw, and now have improved.

......

I like our D. It's deep. But Stanley cup champs/top top teams usually have one Elite blueliner. We don't have that. That would be our one weakness and I don't think the depth we have makes up for that.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by liamenator

Lots of us have been highly critical of Murray Edwards (myself included), but it's worth noting that both Huberdeau and Kadri thanked and mentioned him by name as one of the (many) positive aspects of the organization that helped convince them to commit long term.

Speculating here, but perhaps it wasn't only Treliving for whom the Gaudreau thing lit a competitive fire. That bodes well for the future, IMO.

Ya it really feels like fiscal and prudent management was what the MO was and now after the Johnny and Matthew situation, it looks like that lit a fire and ownership and management are full blown let’s go and deal with cap issues as they arise later.

I truly see this as a turning point to our future, where we might finally be able to take things to a new level and let the cuffs off Tre.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I like our D. It's deep. But Stanley cup champs/top top teams usually have one Elite blueliner. We don't have that. That would be our one weakness and I don't think the depth we have makes up for that.

Well, TB and the Avs have an elite Dman. Is Pietrangelo elite? I dunno. He played well in the Blues' cup run, but 41 points isn't remarkable. Rasmus had 50 last year. The Caps had Carlson who has had a gtreat year that year and since has also posted great numbers. But prior to that he wasn't considered elite and scored in the 30s.

Maybe Weegar has yet another gear, or Rasmus or Hanifin. But moreover - why is an elite Dman necessary versus an extremely deep D corps.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, TB and the Avs have an elite Dman. Is Pietrangelo elite? I dunno. He played well in the Blues' cup run, but 41 points isn't remarkable. Rasmus had 50 last year. The Caps had Carlson who has had a gtreat year that year and since has also posted great numbers. But prior to that he wasn't considered elite and scored in the 30s.

Maybe Weegar has yet another gear, or Rasmus or Hanifin. But moreover - why is an elite Dman necessary versus an extremely deep D corps.

Most Stanley Cup winning team have a true/elite 1D

[Envitro]

And now we just need to get a new building built!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I can live with those conditions for a highly sought after UFA. He earned the NMC for the next few years, and we likely won't need it to be waived for that period anyway.

The 13 team NTC may become an issue, but not an impediment to making a significant deal should the team move in another direction.

The last two years being able to be bought out is perfection. Glad that part was sorted out. You can't give guaranteed money to players over 35.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I can live with those conditions for a highly sought after UFA. He earned the NMC for the next few years, and we likely won't need it to be waived for that period anyway.

The 13 team NTC may become an issue, but not an impediment to making a significant deal should the team move in another direction.

The last two years being able to be bought out is perfection. Glad that part was sorted out. You can't give guaranteed money to players over 35.

If he can perform for the first 4 years it is a good contract. When he slows down on the backend of the contract the Flames could keep him if they are rebuilding or buy him out after year 5 for a 2.3 million cap hit for years 6-9 of the contract.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Most Stanley Cup winning team have a true/elite 1D

That's isn't really an answer to the question.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's isn't really an answer to the question.

It gives insight into how pedantic the conversation can get. Some people lock players into elite status with a cup win, some aren’t allowed to ever be called it without a cup win.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's isn't really an answer to the question.

It is because it’s a precedent.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be done but that’s how it has been

Now if you don’t have an elite dman, you need everyone on top of their game which is harder to do. The Flames defense did fall apart in the last playoffs series

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Instead of focusing on the strengths of this team, maybe it is a worthwhile endeavour to get our heads out of the clouds and look at this team's weaknesses, and see where they may have issues.

Weaknesses:
None. No, really, name it. Think long and hard. Not enough depth on the roster? I will give you one... travel schedule? That's about it. At the risk of sounding like a homer, let's focus on the strengths to illustrate my point.

Strengths:


Goaltending: I would say it is probably in the top 5. Want to argue that because of the Oilers' series? That's up to you. I feel they are still a top 5 team in net.

Defence: I would say top 5 team there too. Where in the top 5? I don't know, but that's some seriously good quality from 1-6. The only possible gripe here is there is no franchise-level game-breaker, but this is a very good 1-6 group that were solidly in the top 5 last year by every metric that I saw, and now have improved.

Centers: This is harder to rate. I mean, McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH is really good, but Draisaitl plays with McDavid a lot, and defensively as a group they are not particularly strong. Crosby-Malkin-Carter is definitely still elite (though Carter is waning). Lindholm, Kadri and Backlund as a group should be among the top 5 in production by centers I am guessing, but also be among the top 5 for defence. Of course the Oilers trio will out-produce the Flames' centers, but head to head? Flames might be able to neutralize them effectively. This will be interesting. At any rate, even if you feel my ranking is too high, the center depth is an absolute strength, not a weakness.

Wingers: Huberdeau, Toffoli, Mangiapane. That's 3 bona fide top 6 wingers. This includes an elite-level winger (Huberdeau) and a very analytically strong play-driving winger in Mangiapane that doesn't need the PP to produce. Plus, you still have good young wingers to grow into their roles like Dube, Pelletier, Ruzicka now (I assume he will be a winger now), etc. decent depth and high-end talent.

Coaching: This is Darryl Sutter. Name 4 better coaches than him on different teams. You can't.

I can't really point at any weaknesses or glaring holes on the roster. There will be centers that out-produce Calgary's trio of centers, but I think very few will be able to match-up head to head as well. Calgary's strength down the middle is in part because they are all very good defensive centers.



My prediction: Flames will probably stay close to 6th overall in goals for this season. With Kadri and Weegar, I think it really closest the gap for Tkachuk, especially if Dube or another winger take a small step forward which is likely. Flames will be the number 1 team defensively though (they were 3rd last year, and only 6 goals from being tied for 1st with Carolina (and the Flames had 12 goals less than 4th place Boston).


Flames are still not in the "Colorado, Tampa" level of contender, but I do think they are in the Carolina, St. Louis, Minnesota level - that very next tier. That's down-right amazing considering their best player walked for absolutely nothing, and their only other franchise-level player forced a trade.

Excellent post.


You need 4 wingers for your top 6. I could easily see Lindholm sliding back to to RW.

If you are going to call Toffoli a top 6 winger then you have to call Coleman one as well.

Huberdeau-Kadri-Lindholm
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

puts the top 6 forwards in the top-6 with proven chemistry of the Backlund line.

Backlund's fancy stats drop off 5% when he was playing with Toffoli as opposed to when he wasn't.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It is because it’s a precedent.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be done but that’s how it has been

Now if you don’t have an elite dman, you need everyone on top of their game which is harder to do. The Flames defense did fall apart in the last playoffs series

A precedent is only as good as the underlying reasons. But tell me - was Carlson considered elite before a cup run? Was Pietrangelo? Was Letang?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Excellent post.


You need 4 wingers for your top 6. I could easily see Lindholm sliding back to to RW.

If you are going to call Toffoli a top 6 winger then you have to call Coleman one as well.

Huberdeau-Kadri-Lindholm
Mangiapane-Backlund-Coleman

puts the top 6 forwards in the top-6 with proven chemistry of the Backlund line.

Backlund's fancy stats drop off 5% when he was playing with Toffoli as opposed to when he wasn't.

Worst idea ever.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It is because it’s a precedent.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be done but that’s how it has been

Now if you don’t have an elite dman, you need everyone on top of their game which is harder to do. The Flames defense did fall apart in the last playoffs series

The Flames are coming off a run where they had an elite D-man for 6-8 years... almost 2 with Gio and Brodie.

A real elite D-man plays better in the playoffs.

Hanifin and Anderson missed their opportunity to step up to elite status in the last year's playoffs.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Worst idea ever.

lol Lindholm's 78 pts 27 goals and +30 as a RW on Monahan's line in 2018-19 was so bad.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's isn't really an answer to the question.

All situations minute muncher that plays against top competition and comes out on top while being the anchor for his pairing.

At worst.

At best? Chris Pronger in his prime in the playoffs.
He transcended reality almost. An otherworldly presence on the ice.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

No weakness so the Flames should be the cup favorite?

Not necessarily. I would argue that contenders like St Louis had any holes, but they weren't favourites for the cup. Minnesota didn't have holes, and were bounced in the first round (by St Louis).

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1560595662479265792

The only negative quibble from me I notice in all these long deals is that none of them have higher salary in the first half. I think they become easier to unload towards the end if they were front-loaded.

Originally Posted by Number 39

Great post C4L! The only weakness I would add is until proven otherwise is that I question this teams mental fortitude. Perhaps a lot of that had to do with some key players who always seemed like potential flight risks. Perhaps subconsciously they weren’t fully invested. I’m so happy to not have to hear about players who are being speculated about wanting out.

True. That's definitely something that is overlooked. I won't get into trade value, but it did bug me that some of the previous best playoff performers were traded away - guys like Ferland, Brodie and Bennett all seemed to improve in the playoffs. I think that's part of the reason why Treliving brought guys in like Lewis, Richardson (last year), Coleman and now Kadri, and why teams in general end up pay for cup-winning vets for that experience.



The core of this team is now drastically changed, and I assume that we will get to see how that fortitude has changed as I expect this to be a playoff team.

[djsFlames]

Lol yeah the Flames would finally get great center depth and then proceed not to use it.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, TB and the Avs have an elite Dman. Is Pietrangelo elite? I dunno. He played well in the Blues' cup run, but 41 points isn't remarkable. Rasmus had 50 last year. The Caps had Carlson who has had a gtreat year that year and since has also posted great numbers. But prior to that he wasn't considered elite and scored in the 30s.

Maybe Weegar has yet another gear, or Rasmus or Hanifin. But moreover - why is an elite Dman necessary versus an extremely deep D corps.

You are quoting points? And comparing Rasmus to Pietreangelo? Come on. He was one of the first three named for Canada for the last Olympic team (that didn’t go). The other two were Crosby and Mcdavid.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

lol Lindholm's 78 pts 27 goals and +30 as a RW on Monahan's line in 2018-19 was so bad.

Sure, if you're replying to "Lindholm can't be a good winger", but you're not. Nice strawman. It's a terrible idea because he's a Selke finalist. Keep him at center.