2022 Blue Jays Season Thread

[ben voyonsdonc]

Let’s look at the positive side - if the team does slip out of the playoff race, it might spur management to make some more dramatic moves in the offseason to fix some of the deep issues on the team. Management needs to identify the true core of the team and build a balanced team around them. That means that guys like Bo, Teo, Jano, Lourdes, etc should not be untouchable to build a better team.

Tinkering around the edges isn’t really working. There is a very strong core to build around and it will take creativity, intellectual honesty (hey Feaster), and some cajones to move some fan favourites to get there.

If we make the playoffs and exit right away, management might write off this season as an anomaly and keep the status quo.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I’d love a really good left handed bat right ahead of Guerrero in the batting order. The quality of the left handed batter matters…sure you can stick Biggio, Bradley Jr, or Tapia in the line up but a mistake to any of them won’t be so punitive that a pitcher would be worried about facing them.

Having at least one middle of the batting order left handed hitter would likely shake things up significantly for the team.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Jesus...guys, they're in a slump and facing some red hot teams. It's a bad combination, but they're not as bad as their recent stretch suggests.

They're not a 2-8 team anymore than the Yankees are a 2-8 team. It's the dog days of August. It happens even to great teams.

They still have a solid, if not inconsistent, rotation: Manoah, Gausman, Berrios, Stripling, White

They have a nice bullpen now with the additions of Bass and Pop:
Romano
Garcia
Cimber
Bass
Pop
Phelps

That's a nice group of 6 without even considering the other guys like Richards, Thornton, or Kikuchi (pretty sure he's the new long man or 6th starter).

They have one of the best lineups in baseball, but are currently going through a cold stretch or have bad luck capitalizing on their chances. It sucks to watch, but it won't stay that way forever, they're too talented:

Springer
Guerrero
Kirk
Hernandez
Gurriel
Bichette
Chapman
Espinal
Jansen/Tapia/whoever isn't DHing

Bench: Biggio, Merrifield, Tapia/Bradley Jr., Jansen/Kirk

Look at the team and tell me that they can't turn it around from this cold stretch. Have a little faith.

[Jason14h]

The Jays are 30-42 against teams above .500

Sooo, maybe they just aren’t that good

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Jays are 30-42 against teams above .500

Sooo, maybe they just aren’t that good

That's what I'm thinking.

Better hope this is just a "down" year for Vlad and Bo or this team will likely never be as good as we'd hoped they would be with this core.

They really F'ed up with the Kikuchi signing. The guy isn't just a hole in the line up, he's a massive, soul sucking, WAR deflating black hole in the line up.

[GirlySports]

Kikuchi is what he is, a 5th starter. Jays did not expect Ryu to be hurt or Berrios to be so poor.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's what I'm thinking.

Better hope this is just a "down" year for Vlad and Bo or this team will likely never be as good as we'd hoped they would be with this core.

They really F'ed up with the Kikuchi signing. The guy isn't just a hole in the line up, he's a massive, soul sucking, WAR deflating black hole in the line up.

Vladdy is still 15th in the league in OPS. Thats still a superstar. He was just all world last year.

Bo has fallen off the cliff completely, and Teo is a bit down > That isn't helping

The issue is spending 45 million on Kikuchi, Berrios and Ryu.

This was a complete disaster for this year to have this much money tied up on 3 ineffective pitchers in 2022.

Ryu gave us some good years, and Berrios has a good history, but the reality is the team have 1/3 of their payroll in 2022 being ineffective.

Ryu and Kikuchi counting for 32 million next year is nothing short of a disaster for this team trying to take advantage of the cost controlled years of our stars.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Kikuchi is what he is, a 5th starter. Jays did not expect Ryu to be hurt or Berrios to be so poor.

He's getting paid 36 million over 3 years.

He isn't a 5th starter. He was brought in to be an above average 3.

And hes a horrendous 5 at that

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Kikuchi is what he is, a 5th starter. Jays did not expect Ryu to be hurt or Berrios to be so poor.

Kikuchi has -0.8 fWAR and the team is 6-14 in games he starts. (55-40 in all other games)

He's been nothing short of a disaster.

Just imagine, the Jays were apparently ridiculously close to signing either Verlander or Syndergaard, which would have meant no Kikuchi. What a difference that would have made. Especially Verlander who is probably going to win the AL Cy Young

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Look at the team and tell me that they can't turn it around from this cold stretch. Have a little faith.

Having a starting rotation with 2 solid starters is not a good rotation. As much as I appreciate Stripling, he isn’t meant to be a third or fourth guy in a rotation. He can’t consistently make it through the order a third time which puts immense strain on a bullpen…a bullpen that, while better than before, doesn’t have a legitimate long man or anything like the O’s, Yankees, Guardians or even Twins in terms of the quality of arms (beyond Romano). White is the same thing.

I’ve already discussed why I think this lineup, while on paper looks really strong, is less than the sum of its parts. There just isn’t balance there. You need quality left handed batters to force pitchers (especially right handed pitchers) to throw their entire arsenal of pitches.

While I hope you are right, I don’t see a team with such glaring holes as a legitimate playoff team.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He's getting paid 36 million over 3 years.

He isn't a 5th starter. He was brought in to be an above average 3.

And hes a horrendous 5 at that

He has been terrible but I wasn't expecting him to be lights out. He's 5th on this team. Berrios, Gausmann and Ryu have bigger contracts and Manoah is a bonus.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Kikuchi is what he is, a 5th starter. Jays did not expect Ryu to be hurt or Berrios to be so poor.

Kikuchi isn’t a fifth starter at all. He isn’t good enough at this point to confidently handle long relief.

I think Kikuchi was actually brought in to be the fourth starter ahead of Ryu. Ryu has shown that he can’t really physically handle the rigours of a long season and I think Atkins brought him in to take that off of Ryu’s shoulders. Obviously it hasn’t worked out. I don’t put that on Atkins though. You can’t force him to be a decent pitcher.

What I do put on Atkins is that the lineup was never balanced and there were glaring holes in the bullpen from day 1 of this season. He didn’t address either of those as aggressively as he needed to at the deadline. Pop and Bass are good adds but we needed at least another electric arm who can come in during the eighth or ninth innings and shut things down.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, and ####ing Berrios. That's a pretty big concern now.

0.0 fWAR is just awful, especially for the guy that they deemed the opening day starter.

Career low in K's
Career high in ERA, FIP, xERA
Career low in ground ball rate
Career high in home run %

Brutal

[GirlySports]

And they were expecting Pearson to be something. Another starter or that electric arm in the pen.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Based on their injury history, the organization betting any money on Pearson and/or Merryweather after the last couple of years was an obviously bad bet to make.

[cross16]

I mean the core of this Jays team is still young and it's not like they have major pieces that are FA this year so I don't think it's time to panic. I too am of the belief they are going to play better and i still think they find there way into the playoffs just not sure they are more than maybe a wildcard/division team.

The glaring holes are pretty obvious though and pretty concerning, mostly because they are the same issues that remain year after year. For a good 5-7 years now, SP depth, Bullpen depth and lack of LH bats has been a problem and it remains unfixed. I know there was a rebuild in there but I still find it concerning that the same issues come up and Atkins and co don't seem to be coming up with answers.

Also I think Atkins has to wear a ton of blame for Kikuchi. Save for a few months he really hasn't' been a very good starting pitcher in MLB and they still felt it warranted a 3 year deal to bring him in right before spring training?

The ability to identify arm talent is a big question mark I have on this current administration.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, and ####ing Berrios. That's a pretty big concern now.

0.0 fWAR is just awful, especially for the guy that they deemed the opening day starter.

Career low in K's
Career high in ERA, FIP, xERA
Career low in ground ball rate
Career high in home run %

Brutal

I've said it all season. He's been on a downward trend for three or four years. It was never a question about "if" he would see a huge fall off. It was just a matter of when. The trade for him was good. The re-signing of him was some questionable professional scouting at work.

Is he tipping? Does he have a knee injury? Does he need to rebuild his mechanics? Has he just lost it? Hard to say since he was so consistent for so many years, but this change isn't as sudden or unexpected as some people will try and claim. Between Kikuchi and Berrios you have two pitchers in your starting rotation that can't get out of the third.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I've said it all season. He's been on a downward trend for three or four years. It was never a question about "if" he would see a huge fall off. It was just a matter of when. The trade for him was good. The re-signing of him was some questionable professional scouting at work.

Is he tipping? Does he have a knee injury? Does he need to rebuild his mechanics? Has he just lost it? Hard to say since he was so consistent for so many years, but this change isn't as sudden or unexpected as some people will try and claim. Between Kikuchi and Berrios you have two pitchers in your starting rotation that can't get out of the third.

Last season was not part of any down trend.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Last season was not part of any down trend.

It was. All his underlying numbers were down from where he peaked a few years ago.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I've said it all season. He's been on a downward trend for three or four years. It was never a question about "if" he would see a huge fall off. It was just a matter of when. The trade for him was good. The re-signing of him was some questionable professional scouting at work.

Is he tipping? Does he have a knee injury? Does he need to rebuild his mechanics? Has he just lost it? Hard to say since he was so consistent for so many years, but this change isn't as sudden or unexpected as some people will try and claim. Between Kikuchi and Berrios you have two pitchers in your starting rotation that can't get out of the third.

Genuinely curious, what showed you he was on a downward trend?

Because he was really good last year, arguably his best pro season, and really good after the trade as well.